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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:43 pm 
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Posts: 811
I always get confused with topics like these. The differences between the wheels you mention are tiny. If you could close your eyes while riding, you wouldn't be able to feel the difference. I ride 300-400 km a week, and I really don't feel the difference between any of my 8-10 wheelsets, including 3 sets of carbon wheels. I'm not even sure I notice the difference (except the sound obviously) between my disc wheel on the TT and other wheels. The difference in tires and tubes is much more noticeable.

If you have crappy roads, just pic the ones with most carbon material and don't go lower than 24/20 spokes. Preferably wide rims as well. But if the wheels are well build, you wont have problems with any of them.

That said, why would you even choose carbon for everyday riding? It's just a waste of money. Just buy some cheap wheels like Shimano RS11 or Fulcrum 7 for everyday.

To me carbon wheels are like a suit, I only bring them out on special occasions. I really don't understand the need for carbon on everyday basis. Especially not in Boston with 8-16 days of rain per month all year round, and with an average of 90 mm rain per month. You'll just wear them down quickly. Unless of course you only ride 1-2 times a week, and only when the weather is perfect.

Sorry, just my two cents...


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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:43 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:17 am
Posts: 33
^Are you running the RS11 or Fulcrums as your everyday wheels?


Last edited by shuttlenote on Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:32 pm 
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Posts: 811
^yes and no. I build my own wheels. My everyday wheels are cheap aluminum rims like DT R460 and low end Mavic rims on Miche Primato Syntesi or Shimano hubs. If I didn't build my own wheels, I would pick something like the Shimano RS11's... I have at least 3-4 sets of wheels below 200 euros, that are my everyday wheels.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:19 am
Posts: 1390
So it sounds like riding is a job or a chore for you rather than a pleasure. If it's purely (or primarily) for enjoyment, why only bring out nice stuff on special occasions? THAT seems like a waste.

Would you have known there's little difference between the wheels if you hadn't ridden/owned so many?

If there's no difference, why own 8-10?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:48 am 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm
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When you're racing sometimes it is a chore. But usually I enjoy it. The OP lives in Boston and has crappy roads, two very good reason not to ride carbon every day. How does riding carbon wheels instead of aluminum give you enjoyment? I thought cycling was about getting out, watching nature, challenging your physique and socialize.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:11 am 
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Location: Natovi Landing
Multebear wrote:
When you're racing sometimes it is a chore. But usually I enjoy it. The OP lives in Boston and has crappy roads, two very good reason not to ride carbon every day. How does riding carbon wheels instead of aluminum give you enjoyment? I thought cycling was about getting out, watching nature, challenging your physique and socialize.


LOL ... yes all those things, and enjoyment of good equipment also. Look around Weight Weenies as there is a bit of this going on around here!

BTW, I completely get not riding carbon wheels in the wet, but not the comment that they wear out quicker than alu rimmed wheels. My experience is the opposite.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 pm
Posts: 308
Location: London
My 2016 404s were perfect for the year+ I used them for.

Changed to Enve 4.5's, definitely not worth double the price of Zipps!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:02 pm 
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I don't think I ever mentioned, that carbon wears quicker than alu. My experience is the opposite as well. My point was, that riding in rain wears the wheels much faster than riding in the dry, and since Boston is a pretty wet place, riding carbon on a daily basis is a bad idea.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:54 am
Posts: 39
Location: Boston
I go away for a day and look what transpires, LOL

You guys are seeing my issue, at what price point do wheels plateau and differences in aero/ride/etc become so small its negligible?

Yup, Boston roads suck, not an unknown fact. its what gives us better bike handling skills, tougher bodies, and crap attitudes. :)

You're correct, I am not a 5 day a week rider and i cant ride in the rain, ill melt!!! truth is id rather run in the rain or swim in the rain than bike.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm
Posts: 811
Bostonbull wrote:

at what price point do wheels plateau and differences in aero/ride/etc become so small its negligible?



No one really knows. A lot of the info that gets out to the masses is marketing BS.

But if you buy Zipp 303 or 404, you don't need to pay more to get more. The same goes for Reynolds, Knight, Campagnolo and a lot of other brands. Some think that chinese carbon rims are inferior to the name brands. I disagree. My chinese ones are very good, and considerably more affordable.

Just pic the ones amongst the name brands that look coolest. Seriously, I think that would give you the biggest satisfaction.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:04 am
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Quote:
Some think that chinese carbon rims are inferior to the name brands. I disagree. My chinese ones are very good, and considerably more affordable.


Completely agree. I have several sets built around DT Swiss 240s hubs, couldn't fault them at twice the price.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:49 am
Posts: 360
Location: Seattle, WA
Multebear wrote:
Bostonbull wrote:

at what price point do wheels plateau and differences in aero/ride/etc become so small its negligible?



No one really knows. A lot of the info that gets out to the masses is marketing BS.

But if you buy Zipp 303 or 404, you don't need to pay more to get more. The same goes for Reynolds, Knight, Campagnolo and a lot of other brands. Some think that chinese carbon rims are inferior to the name brands. I disagree. My chinese ones are very good, and considerably more affordable.

Just pic the ones amongst the name brands that look coolest. Seriously, I think that would give you the biggest satisfaction.


IMO there's fundamentally three tiers of carbon wheels:

1. Brand name stuff well over $2k-$3k+
2. Small company stuff that owns/designs their own molds but still ship them from China/Taiwan, usually $1k-$1.5k
3. Out-and-out no name chinese carbon from open molds, $400-$800 (sometimes they will be rebranded and sold as #2 tier)

How I see it, the most reasonable/cost-effective approach to this (may vary based on your income :wink:) is to reserve #1 for race day/special occasion, #2 on your posh sunny day bike, and #3 can be swapped or used as often as your aluminum wheels on your every day commute, given that you've done your research and are confident in them. I have personally put a $400 set of chinese carbon (38mm "ICAN") through a rainy Seattle summer/fall/winter/spring 5 to 6 days a week over 13,000km and they were just fine for me (the brake track went shiny/smooth by the end).

Multebear recognizes that riding your bike for most people is for enjoyment, yet fails to to see how running light, deep dishes is far more enjoyable than heavy aluminum that makes your nice steed feel like driving a bus. Does the performance benefit matter when you're just on a ride to work or going for a Sunday ride? Probably not, but it feels good to go faster. The flipside is to only ride downtube-shifting steel every day and only ride your pride and joy bike in competition..

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:42 am
Posts: 154
bilwit wrote:
Multebear recognizes that riding your bike for most people is for enjoyment, yet fails to to see how running light, deep dishes is far more enjoyable than heavy aluminum that makes your nice steed feel like driving a bus. Does the performance benefit matter when you're just on a ride to work or going for a Sunday ride? Probably not, but it feels good to go faster. The flipside is to only ride downtube-shifting steel every day and only ride your pride and joy bike in competition..


Two questions and a statement:
Q1: What weighs more, a 500g alloy rim or a 500g carbon rim?
Q2: How much faster does 0 watts of aerodynamic benefit make you go?
S1: It's deep section, not deep dish

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:49 am
Posts: 360
Location: Seattle, WA
NovemberDave wrote:
bilwit wrote:
Multebear recognizes that riding your bike for most people is for enjoyment, yet fails to to see how running light, deep dishes is far more enjoyable than heavy aluminum that makes your nice steed feel like driving a bus. Does the performance benefit matter when you're just on a ride to work or going for a Sunday ride? Probably not, but it feels good to go faster. The flipside is to only ride downtube-shifting steel every day and only ride your pride and joy bike in competition..


Two questions and a statement:
Q1: What weighs more, a 500g alloy rim or a 500g carbon rim?
Q2: How much faster does 0 watts of aerodynamic benefit make you go?
S1: It's deep section, not deep dish


Two statements:
S1: For $490 I can get RS81-C24s at 1520g.
S2: For $400 I can get 40mm chinese carbon clinchers at 1320g.

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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:40 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:42 am
Posts: 154
If ~400g 40mm clincher rims ($400 Chinese ones or expensive maybe Chinese maybe not ones) work for you, go with it. For way too many people that's just not going to. A neighborhood hill would be enough to show that. But if it works for you and is what you prefer, go with it. Living less than 50 miles from Boston and knowing the roads, terrain, and weather OP is on... well... nope.

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