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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:53 pm 
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*Reading along seeing newcomers to wheel building posting gives me the idea to spin a thread per wheel building techniques. I've read along seeing various ideas per experienced builders interesting... later I'll run a few by for comments.

Had a 26" rear w Shimano Nexus to repair recently off a garage bike trade in. Previous owner drained his wallet w wheel 'repairs' some 20 miles west of me. I know the shop... rank amateurs at best mostly 'fixing' spokes. Mostly the avenue the US consumer faces today when repairing wheels.
'Goober' told said owner the reason for the issues was the SW rim... humorous. While not ideal whereas the rear carries over 80% of the load in that bike configuration, this rim deep U design when built correctly is fine provided said ridder isn't a waddler.

This Nexus flange width is more narrow than ideal.. Goober made two fatal errors. Failure to set spoke heads to prevent future spoke movement and subsequent 'head slap' with resettling in different positions... elbow will fail before long w hard use. Head slap can occur even when set correctly with hardest impacts.. IF... spoke tensions are all over the place.. IE: large variation which was the case here.. and the norm in Goober wheels. Yet good setting and alignment goes miles to prevent spoke breakage. Goober creates/employs what I term the 'Sargent Spoke'.. the one that brings usually lateral alignment into "true" most often writing off acceptable critical roundness of the finished wheel. 'Sarge' breaks usually at the elbow.. and given that spoke's job of holding tension to accomplish 'true'.. the wheel then is nearly unrideable... to get home.

The solution is adding brass washers to bring the spoke elbow to the flange.. outside of the flange one gets good support.. inside spokes in this case are within range to allow elbows to handle loads. That.. and well balanced tension around the rim. Basic stuff.

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NOT.. making lite of the Goobers. Their just making a few bucks to get along... costly though for consumers.


Last edited by WinterRider on Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Goober Builds Wheels
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:24 pm 
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Switched to 20H front.. same outbound 1x lacing as previous 24's. Did my first 24 inbound per norm inbounf.. I lace softer fronts for feel/ride comfort. At 75-80 kgf that wheel talked when road at angle. Going outbound quieted everything down. 12,000 mi two fronts..one over 8500.. working fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Goober Builds Wheels
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:24 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Goober Builds Wheels
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:03 pm 
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Kinlin 200 triplet 24H using Powerway R13 spaced 135mm to give on the order of low 90's to 100 ratio tension left to right.

Kgh totals... using traditional design 24 H with a 120 kgf limit right gives 2160 total kgf into the rim per the spoke tension... figuring 50/100 ratio left to right.. which today does not get done with the wider flange spacing. Total kgf for traditional build is 2160 kgf. Usually more to something just under 2000 kgf with mid 40's to 100 ratio.

Today's same triplet build is somewhat higher finished tension goal.. last one 95 DS and mid 80's NDS. This one 105/93~ with total kgf around 2400. Given these rims are in the mid 380's or less for weight this tension level means minute adjustments and frequent stress relieving.

Washers used all around.. drop of oil between nip and washer.. they move easily and smoothly. All is well with the first set at around 7% less tension... I wanted to trial the 2nd at higher tension as mounting tires means tension loss and my setup is difficult to balance tension w tire installed.

First set in just under 1300 grs.. this one identical components and brass nips.. & steel washers.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Ordered cassettes from Chain Reaction.. DHL is the delivery agent. Gets the email will deliver by end of business 7-28.... NEED them so made sure to be around. Even signed the online form for del if not home. No show.. found past Wednes they state delivery 7-31.. where that was is anyone's guess now.

GIST is this: put a charge into CReact to get DHL into gear... 800 service ain't prominent in online mess of theirs. Get the NICE call... ya know that customer 'jam' bullsh*t... 2nd one early this morn. IF I understood the NICE agent correctly.. their NEW driver supposedly checked our location yesterday... but 'IT' didn't knock.. we were home. THEN I asks the NICE agent IF the &*^& company has GPS data tried to delivery.. answer YES. SO then I asks NICE agent if they would please access their system and figure out where in the F the parcel was dropped...............

Parentage/lineage of that organization below.............. YET I suspect said 'company' has less ability to THINK<<<<-----------.

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NOTE this added below.......

DHL really came thru for me... in spades. Found parcel delivered to wrong address.. could not retrieve... sent word to process my return. Very well handled.. just irritating to have to cut thru the first layer of bullsh*t. Happens.... :smartass:

Seems to me a few key strokes would have saved me lots of time and nonsense.. IE: access delivery data, enter GPS data in.. compare to my address. Take what... couple minutes. :noidea:

Chain Reaction: same. Very well handled by their customer staff. They'll be around for a LONG time.


Last edited by WinterRider on Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Well.. cassettes found... neighbor who aint got them. DHL sez sorry.. file for coins. At least they were honest once I got the head of co alerted. Do well understand the nature of the company chain.. just the vocal male cow dung I still find irritating.. IE: failure to act with a mind. Buttt.. that is just me.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:19 pm 
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Our wheel building process.
https://novemberbicycles.com/pages/our-wheelbuilding-process

Enjoyed this read.. one of many fine wheel craftsmen around this forum. Methinks if the build survives those forearms it's good to go. :thumbup:

Spoke line correction is my target this time around. No pro builder here... I like to experiment.. when I'm riding them. What works.. and why. Granted a professional marketing custom is going to cover all the bases... tried and true.. works.

I do set spoke heads when required.. of late the Sapim Lasers are seating perfect.. no need. Giving them a firm tap otherwise getting head and hole material meeting uniformly... an alignment issue I see blown off regularly on Goober builds/repairs. Guarantees further repair work for Goober/s.

Using Sapim Lasers, Sapin Strong and Sapim 14G stainless has mostly eliminated the need to push elbows down into line. I remember a poster on another channel complaining of hand/thumb soreness getting the spoke to 'lay down'... I told him to switch brands or find a 2x4 of suitable size. I can only say my wheels do not talk on initial rides and stay true.. stability indicators.

Then spoke angle into the rim.. larger issue. Sapim polyax nips again mitigate the issue.. if said hole is burr free and drilled correctly. I see a few poor initial departure angles .. a very light chamfer with a drill bit or round file in the drill gets things right. No real metal being removed.. just burrs getting removed. Only lube ever used is a drop of oil between nip and rim.. threads never get anything. I will on occasion set a drop of nail polish on the spoke head protruding from the nip head on lower kgf NDS spokes.. linseed oil never set up for me and re-working the ones that do is one PITA event. Spoke thread lockers... not.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:35 pm 
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DHL really came thru for me... in spades. Found parcel delivered to wrong address.. could not retrieve... sent word to process my return. Very well handled.. just irritating to have to cut thru the first layer of bullsh*t. Happens.... :smartass:

Seems to me a few key strokes would have saved me lots of time and nonsense.. IE: access delivery data, enter GPS data in.. compare to my address. Take what... couple minutes. :noidea:

Chain Reaction: same. Very well handled by their customer staff. They'll be around for a LONG time.


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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:35 pm 


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