UltraRear SLX 139g Tension limits...drifting to 12 8 Lacing

[mr4fox]

If Extralite are claiming 19mm I doubt it's center to center because that can lead to interference with the rear mech, especially with shallower rims. I have one prototype hub that is a true 19mm center to center laced to a 65mm rim. It's awfully close to having the mech hit the spokes. Any frame flex will cause them to rub.


Don't mean to hijack the thread but I have a question about this. I have an Alchemy Orc V1 rear hub which according to Alchemy's old website has a (center of) right flange to center of hub distance of 19.6mm. I've never noticed any issues with clearance. Then again I can't say I've actually measured it myself. But I seem to recall in fairwheelbikes first big hub review they measured center to center of the flange and found a similar measurement.

Any idea how this works with out the mech hitting spokes? Should I be worried about using those wheels on some bikes?



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[ergott]

That was for 10 speed Shimano/Sram specific hub. The Campagnolo version (I still have and use) was 18mm.

[sugarkane]

I reckon the extralite is a lot closer to 18mm they tend to be a bit Italian wit there numbers Close enough is good enough

[ergott]

I have no problem with 18mm, that's better than most! Worst case, 19mm to outside would probably be about 17.4mm which is on par with the majority of hubs and still better than the likes of DT.


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[WinterRider]

I've rec'd couple responses from the Extralite rep per using this hub in triplet lacing... as not recommended.. the last response stated radial laced NDS "100 kgf radially on J-bend is dangerous, in certain situations stress corrosion may happen". I did resend stating I use 1x NDS*.

The rep stated their planning to release a triplet specific sometime this summer.. straight pull only. Extralite in my view gets a good mark for courtesy per replying in a very timely manner.

*Add-endum": Forgot to note.. my current 'trip' on 32H with 'skip 2' pattern left.. ie: hole 1 and 4 cross 1x.. 5 and 8 etc. Took note of how 1x was handled by mass market wheels... paired holes with spokes going away from each other.. and other examples.

[mr4fox]

That was for 10 speed Shimano/Sram specific hub. The Campagnolo version (I still have and use) was 18mm.

Ofc, I forgot that my hub is campy (I have shimano free hubs on all my other wheels).
Well that explains it ". Thanks!!


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[sugarkane]

The sp hubs are amazing and I'm very happy about the triplet design I've been pushing for over a year and a half for a proto hubshell. My house carbon people do a very light 25mm rim that at my weight I've avoided building for my self as on the Extralites ( and the only real choice of hub when chasing grams ) with the low NDS tension would be way to noddlely
Best thing is I can get my rims custom drilled

[WinterRider]

Don't mean to hijack the thread

Hijack away.. works for me. IMO this threads/forums are for learning.. cause.. I'm gonna do same.

12-8 lacing is my next rear wheel. Why... some would ask.. valid. Just.. for the h*ll of it.. recreational pursuit.. might learn something again.

Issue of NDS per less spokes triplet and loss of lateral stiffness per triplet... so.. add a couple left. Understand I have one in the garage on my Poprad.. laced all radial at 95/70.. with a 32H rear. Parts on hand thing.. a 'why not' idea... one builds wheels specific to the job.. in my case ..whim. Lets be clear.. not reinventing anything.. just find the 'lacing/trying out different' an enjoyable pastime.

This radial rear is stiff.. feels like 2nd stiffest rear I've assembled. But it should be.. big wire on back.. Sapim Strong.. on hand wire that fit. Stiffest to date per relative feel.. a 26" 16/8 with same Strong.. some flavor of Velocity NOS rim at a reasonable weight with loose ball Shimano hub.. one forged with somewhat more material between hub hole and edge of the flange.. reason I used it. 3X with radial NDS-- seem to remember 110/100 balance.. did 500 mi on it and sent them on... my '26' days done.

12 8 could be laced 3 ways DS.. 3 unit crows foot.. 2 pulling per one pushing.. or radial. NDS 1x heads in. Powerway 20/24 rear R13.. I keep the 'lab' costs under control. Radial in my view prevents it from being moved along/sold (?). Which spoke.. options: all Lasers, Laser rt with something heavier left, single butted Sapim rt with same left, or same with heavier left. Rim likely to be Kinlin 200.. I am around 85 kg. I'd limit kgf to around 100 max.. I ride 28mm tires at around 80 psi rear/ 60 front. Set should finish low 1200's wt.

Ahhh.. why not. A lark call it.. gonna be double six next month... going on two niner.

And... Spoke wt left...Lasers mean 36, D-Light 41, Force is 50 and Strong 59. Lasers with D-Light left likely plan.

[WinterRider]

How to you read the flange diameters of this description?



I see.. 38 PCD front, 47 left with 58 rt rear.

Came.. 28 front, 38-47 front.

[ergott]

PCD is spoke circle diameter.

I'm not sure what is to be gained with a 8:12 pattern, but make sure you don't torque the hub barrel by putting a stress between the two sides. If you have 2 pulling and one pushing on the right you are effectively trying to twist the hub apart and using the left side as a brace. If they are all radial and the left is your crossing for transmitting torque, consider that you have enough spokes for the job and a pattern that has at least one side with good tangential lacing for the job.

[WinterRider]

I'm not sure what is to be gained with a 8:12 pattern

Call it a compromise between the slack left side of a conventional 24 and the triplet 2-1.. which is marked down per lateral stiffness lacking wire left side. And it appeals to me .. another wrinkle I guess.

My 24 (32H hub) triplet serves me well.. 270 Kinlin hoop. Curious if a lighter rim would handle the chore at 20 spokes. This lacing does not require a specific drilled hub either ... same scenario as employing the 32H I used for said triplet. Same skip one hole left side 1x lacing I used 24 triplet.

PCD ... yes I know well. Was somewhat 'dismayed' when the Taiwan seller missed his specs so far per his ad copy. Q seems ok in hand and I have no illusions about it being a 10K hub.

[zev]

Anyone who has used the cyberfront/ rear SP have any feedback on how much you love the hubs?

[sugarkane]

I'm a massive fan. They are the weight weenie hub of choice I personally use them and have yet to break a pair and I'm in the upper weight limit for them..
There are compromises but.... no other 130/49gram pair of hubs even comes close

[petromyzon]

I have a pair and rate them. The only thing to look out for is that the front flange is so wide it fouls some fork blades - imagine the frustration when I received them and realised I could only use them on one of my bikes!
I didn't build them - got them on an AX lightness wheelset. The tension balance on the rear is pretty poor - the drive side spokes are tight AF but the NDS spokes feel a bit suboptimal (i.e. if I was building a wheel I would want them a bit tighter). Hopefully this won't be a problem long term and certainly the payoff is that the wheels are incredibly stiff for 965 grams.

[bm0p700f]

Triplet lacing does work. I am just waiting for quote on the cost of a few hundred rear hub shell. They will be forged. My design is very similars to ergots idea about the ideal triplet hub. However a dedicated rim is needed or at least a specially drilled rim but this is not difficult to organise.

The only thing i dont like about the extralite hubs is they are easy for the end user to mess up. Someone ever so slightly hamfisted will destroy the end caps, cross thread them crush the end cap washer with the quick realease (actually had a call from some one who had done this). So they are very light and yet are reliable but you have to watch what you are doing even wh en lacing as it so easy to misassemble one.

Ido like the way the front hub shell comes apart and slips back together though but it would scare many seeing how little metal there is.

I do think the whole tension balance thing is overblown though. If the tension balance is low the the wheel needs to be stiffer to compensate. There is always a compromise.
Looking at the dimensions of the new cyber rear sl hub the nds flange is too far inboard for me. There claimed ftf distance of 53mm is short. In reality it must 51 or 52mm as that is what the drawing shows. Shimano have a specification for 11 speed hubs for the distance between the end of the freefub and the flange which limits the ds flange position. Pushing the flange out further doss require the end user to setup the rear derailleur properly and that cannot be assumed. If road bikes went to 135mm spacing the tension balance issue would resolved.

While i am not recommending this i do have one rear wheel with a 33% tension balance and it is stable because it is stiff.