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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:45 am 
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Posts: 600
CrankAddictsRich wrote:
nemeseri wrote:
If you want tires that roll great you can always switch to tubulars. That will make *some* difference in road feel and cornering.


Actually, its quite a well known fact that high end clinchers with latex tubes roll better and are faster than tubulars. The reason why pros use tubulars is because you can ride on a flat for considerably longer, almost indefinitely, allowing a team car to get to you.


Well I was referring to road feel and cornering mainly when I said "roll great".

BUT I also agree that tubulars can go just as fast as clinchers if they are properly glued and have latex inner tubes (so conti is a big no-no). It's really hard to find proper tests regarding the tubs vs clincher crr. The tests at bicyclerollingresistance.com show that the tubular vittoria corsa speed can beat very-very fast clinchers and some tubeless tires. But this is just one example. Usually tests use poorly or not glued tubs, don't factor in the real measured width of the tires (clinchers usually wider for the same size resulting in lower crr) etc.

Also keep in mind that the current hour record was set on vittoria tubs pumped up to 180psi. Only 1 out of 10 pro uses clinchers during TTs. For amateurs there is less room for error with clinchers and clinchers might have a marginal edge in some cases. BUT you can't make a blanket statement that clinchers are faster. If that were the case, everybody would be on them in the pro peloton during TTs and probably on the track too.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Sorry to dig up an old thread but wanted to add my comments. I tried Michelin Power Competitions based on the BRR review. Both front and rear tires suffered sidewall failures in the first 30 days. Going back to Continental Grand Prix 4000S II. They are certainly my go-to tire.

ArtV


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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:08 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:21 pm 
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ArtV wrote:
Sorry to dig up an old thread but wanted to add my comments. I tried Michelin Power Competitions based on the BRR review. Both front and rear tires suffered sidewall failures in the first 30 days. Going back to Continental Grand Prix 4000S II. They are certainly my go-to tire.

ArtV

same as my experience, 23c Power competition doesn't last more than a month.
I currently using Vittoria Corsa G+ which seems to be plushier through bad road which i suspect that it may also be faster on bad road as well since i'm not bouncing around as much. But then again Conti still roll well at lower pressure so i'm not sure about Conti at lower pressure vs Vittoria at normal pressure on bad road.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:47 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles, California
Hexsense wrote:
ArtV wrote:
Sorry to dig up an old thread but wanted to add my comments. I tried Michelin Power Competitions based on the BRR review. Both front and rear tires suffered sidewall failures in the first 30 days. Going back to Continental Grand Prix 4000S II. They are certainly my go-to tire.

ArtV

same as my experience, 23c Power competition doesn't last more than a month.
I currently using Vittoria Corsa G+ which seems to be plushier through bad road which i suspect that it may also be faster on bad road as well since i'm not bouncing around as much. But then again Conti still roll well at lower pressure so i'm not sure about Conti at lower pressure vs Vittoria at normal pressure on bad road.


I can't really speak for the Michelin Power, but can for the Michelin Pro4 AND the Conti's.
Just last Saturday went back to the Pro4 in 25c size. Far superior ride over the Conti 4000sii. No contest.
And no need to employ a hack like everybody running their Conti's at low pressures to compensate.
With both running at 105-110psi, the Conti's feel harsh. And forget cornering, too, as the Pro4's smoke 'em in corners.
Oh, and the primary reason for me changing back is the 2nd catastrophic sidewall slit failure on the Conti's.
Never experienced that over many years of Michelin iterations.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Asteroid wrote:
Hexsense wrote:
ArtV wrote:
Sorry to dig up an old thread but wanted to add my comments. I tried Michelin Power Competitions based on the BRR review. Both front and rear tires suffered sidewall failures in the first 30 days. Going back to Continental Grand Prix 4000S II. They are certainly my go-to tire.

ArtV

same as my experience, 23c Power competition doesn't last more than a month.
I currently using Vittoria Corsa G+ which seems to be plushier through bad road which i suspect that it may also be faster on bad road as well since i'm not bouncing around as much. But then again Conti still roll well at lower pressure so i'm not sure about Conti at lower pressure vs Vittoria at normal pressure on bad road.


I can't really speak for the Michelin Power, but can for the Michelin Pro4 AND the Conti's.
Just last Saturday went back to the Pro4 in 25c size. Far superior ride over the Conti 4000sii. No contest.
And no need to employ a hack like everybody running their Conti's at low pressures to compensate.
With both running at 105-110psi, the Conti's feel harsh. And forget cornering, too, as the Pro4's smoke 'em in corners.
Oh, and the primary reason for me changing back is the 2nd catastrophic sidewall slit failure on the Conti's.
Never experienced that over many years of Michelin iterations.


So depending on your experience they are either the best thing since sliced bread or the worst thing since pressfit bottom brackets.

ArtV


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:52 pm 
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ArtV wrote:

So depending on your experience they are either the best thing since sliced bread or the worst thing since pressfit bottom brackets.

ArtV


Neither. From my experience, the Pro4's are the better tire - rolling resistance be damned! - while the 4000's do the job okay.
Don't say that about pressfit bb's...just yesterday I bought a pressfit bb Cannondale after much trepidation over that! :shock:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:40 pm 
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I just want to add a few thoughts on Vittoria Corsa G+ (regular) after riding them for the past months (and being on GP4000s for years before). The ride is great and they feel fast. Also look much-much better than the gp4000s. I enjoyed them a lot during these months. During dry rides they seem to be holding up ok.

The con' side is that their lifetime seems to be quite limited for a non-tt specific tire. After riding about 1,500 miles (2500 km) I started to get flats and during the same time the weather turned to be more rainy. This resulted in 7 flats during 200 miles. Including a 10 mile commute where I managed to flat both the front AND rear tires. Please note that in the Bay Area, the first few rainy days wash tons of debris to the side of the road, so it's really the worst time of the year. BUT I still found extreme the number of flats I got during this week. What surprised me even more that the tires still look pretty ok. Even the most worn gp4000s I've ever had performed far-far better than this.

So keep in mind that it's better changing them more often and they flat easier in the rain. At least based on my experience (or luck)...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:25 pm 
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I never had sidewalk issues running the GP4000’s but I found the ride harsh. I’m about 85 kegs so on 25’s need to be up around 90-100psi and they just felt stiff and unforgiving. Much prefer the Schwalbe One V-Guard. I like to try different treads and currently running the Corsa Control G+. Seems tough and rolls well, albeit not quite as plush as the standard Corsa g+. Can’t say with the choices available I’d go back to conti.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:44 pm 
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Posts: 88
Location: Cambridge UK
I'm using tubeless now .... whole different ball game and much better tyres, but here's my experience with clinchers

GP 4000 SII are ok and have become the 'industry standard' (i.e your mates say they are good, their mates say they are good , so you buy them and are convinced that they are good)

they are ok and roll well if you use latex tubes ... but there are sidewall issues

better than GP4000 SII are Specialized S-Works Turbo Cottons .... way way much better and faster

I bought my 1st pair after watching this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynD0Rwc3Ius

these are the best clinchers that I have used ... zero punctures so far ... use latex tubes

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:36 am 
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dim wrote:
these are the best clinchers that I have used ... zero punctures so far ... use latex tubes
How many miles have you ridden on them? I tried them and they started to get punctures around the 1000 mile mark. Which is ok for a TT tire. But if you consider that they are just a bit faster on paper than gp4000 and they effectively cost twice as much and last for 1/3 at best, that means they cost 6 times more.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:21 am 
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Location: Cambridge UK
nemeseri wrote:
dim wrote:
these are the best clinchers that I have used ... zero punctures so far ... use latex tubes
How many miles have you ridden on them? I tried them and they started to get punctures around the 1000 mile mark. Which is ok for a TT tire. But if you consider that they are just a bit faster on paper than gp4000 and they effectively cost twice as much and last for 1/3 at best, that means they cost 6 times more.
I do lots of miles and I don't mind paying more for decent fast rolling comfortable tyres ...

if cost and durability is an issue for you, consider Marathon Plus or Durano ... The Specialized Turbo Cotton are not cheap and cost between £50 and £55 each

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:27 pm 
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Posts: 82
Location: San Francisco, CA
nemeseri wrote:
I just want to add a few thoughts on Vittoria Corsa G+ (regular) after riding them for the past months...

The con' side is that their lifetime seems to be quite limited for a non-tt specific tire. After riding about 1,500 miles (2500 km) I started to get flats and during the same time the weather turned to be more rainy. This resulted in 7 flats during 200 miles. Including a 10 mile commute where I managed to flat both the front AND rear tires. Please note that in the Bay Area, the first few rainy days wash tons of debris to the side of the road, so it's really the worst time of the year. BUT I still found extreme the number of flats I got during this week. What surprised me even more that the tires still look pretty ok. Even the most worn gp4000s I've ever had performed far-far better than this.

So keep in mind that it's better changing them more often and they flat easier in the rain. At least based on my experience (or luck)...
Same experience with the tubulars. SF Bay Area. Rain is almost a guaranteed flat. And flatted much more than GP4000sii

I've now got about 500 miles on Specialized Turbos and so far grippy & no punctures.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:45 pm 
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Posts: 257
Turbo Cotton is my favourite, no coincidence that it was developed by the same people as GP4000S. That said it is twice the price of the latter and significantly less durable. If I had to recommend a tyre to a friend without knowledge of them, their budget or their riding experience, it would have to be the Conti.

We are rapidly reaching the point where tubulars are pointless save for the safety aspects. If you want cutting edge compound +nice casing + latex tube and you aren't a pro..... Vittoria is the only game in town, maybe Specialized if you can find them.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:09 pm 
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petromyzon wrote:
Turbo Cotton is my favourite, no coincidence that it was developed by the same people as GP4000S. That said it is twice the price of the latter and significantly less durable. If I had to recommend a tyre to a friend without knowledge of them, their budget or their riding experience, it would have to be the Conti.

We are rapidly reaching the point where tubulars are pointless save for the safety aspects. If you want cutting edge compound +nice casing + latex tube and you aren't a pro..... Vittoria is the only game in town, maybe Specialized if you can find them.
And Veloflex.


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Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:09 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:44 pm 
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Posts: 265
Location: Chicago
The Michelin Power Competition was a disaster for me. I ruined 2 tires due to unrepairable sidewall tears. They ride well but the sidewalls are too thin. The GP4000s II is still a great all around tire. I've started using the Attack Force combo for a bit, which definitely feel faster, but I can tell are not as durable.


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