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 Post subject: Re: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:46 am 
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i'm not going into how i know but the rims are a mix of automated braiding and hand layup.. and FSE are not letting the truth get in the way of their marketing ( i don't sell them or have any affiliation with them ), its something that happens a lot in the bike industry.. less than factual claims and it shits me to be honest

the biggest issue with filament winding are lack of zero degree fibre layup ( in a wheel not a massive issue really but in tubing its not always what you want ) and you need a lot more filler ( clear coat ) to get a nice smooth finish which adds weight and does not assist in structural integrity at all.
but yes it does come originally from the F1 industry and like all forms of manufacturing is does have its draw backs and limitations

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 Post subject: Re: FSE wheels?
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:46 am 


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 Post subject: Re: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:08 am 
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Location: Beringen, Belgium
sugarkane wrote:

the biggest issue with filament winding are lack of zero degree fibre layup ( in a wheel not a massive issue really but in tubing its not always what you want ) and you need a lot more filler ( clear coat ) to get a nice smooth finish which adds weight and does not assist in structural integrity at all.
but yes it does come originally from the F1 industry and like all forms of manufacturing is does have its draw backs and limitations


That. So if 0 degree is required, filament winding is not the solution. Having said that, there are ways to come close to 0.

Regarding smooth finish - there is a way to achieve that as well without having to resort to large quantities of filler. I will try to get some photos. Our partner makes tubes where the final layer is wound at about 85 degrees. The tube is then finished in a mold. It looks amazing. Molding also helps with the finish of our rims so what comes out of the mold is not that much different to a 6k/12k fabric finished surface in terms of amount of processing or putty that is needed.

There are in fact a lot of smoothly finished filament wound sporting good products in the market, just not that many in cycling yet. Golf club shafts and fishing rods are the standard bearers.

V.

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 Post subject: Re: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:35 am 
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mpulsiv wrote:
Last time (few weeks ago) I looked up the price of FSE, they were over $1100. That's twice as much compared to Chinese competition. If these are sugar-coated that's worth 2x as much then I'd like to know how they stand out. For this much $$$ you can pick up FLO 45 or FLO 60 http://www.flocycling.com/store_cc_front_wheels.php


FLO wheels looks good. As you know, it's up to each customer to decide which product is better for him/herself and vary from person to person.


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 Post subject: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:15 am 
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It's nice to have someone knows exactly what's going on in the industry, and not shy to state truth when the manufacturer try to be coy or outright misleading or overstating their claims. Thats why this forum will always have a place in my chrome bookmark.

Thanks Sugarkane and Victor for detailed explanation.

It's a shame Cyclingtips closed the comments on the FSE wheels review, especially after some key facts are brought up. Anyone knows what happened in their comments?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:45 am 
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ichobi wrote:

It's a shame Cyclingtips closed the comments on the FSE wheels review, especially after some key facts are brought up. Anyone knows what happened in their comments?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow, you are right. Amazing. The article itself remained, but the comments explaining the errors in it - no, not just from me, there are other people that are also familiar with what filament winding actually means and how it works - were removed.

Brave new world indeed....

EDIT: the comments are still there, but are not showing. Not sure if CT actually removed them, or if this is a bug with Disqus. You can see the comments if you are ultra keen by viewing the page source code.

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 Post subject: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:30 am 
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ichobi wrote:
It's nice to have someone knows exactly what's going on in the industry, and not shy to state truth when the manufacturer try to be coy or outright misleading or overstating their claims. Thats why this forum will always have a place in my chrome bookmark.

Thanks Sugarkane and Victor for detailed explanation.

It's a shame Cyclingtips closed the comments on the FSE wheels review, especially after some key facts are brought up. Anyone knows what happened in their comments?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"Comments for this thread are now closed" https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/fse-evo ... set-review
I have a feeling that folks from FSE reached out to Cyclingtips or vice verse after seeing the contributors to the comments. Cyclingtips is a great blog and I happen to like the content. Their visitors are somewhat knowledgeable and educated but when WW start to chime-in with wealth of knowledge - it's a red flag. Visibility and information is everything. Kudos to Victor.

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 Post subject: Re: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:15 am 
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One way to find out..

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 Post subject: Re: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:27 pm 
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Shall I ask Nefarious86 :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:27 pm 
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So the comments have been closed and deleted thanks to Victors excessively commercially oriented comments and the Shit storm that created :beerchug: congrats Victor that's a cycling tips first :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:56 pm 
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Victor, how about you buy a set of these rims, saw them in half and explain what's different. It comes off as overly defensive when you're actively running around the internet calling your competitors liars.
I have no doubt there's something fishy about fse, but I feel like this threads getting derailed by a singular claim about filament winding.


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 Post subject: Re: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Pa USA
I don't really have a dog in the fight either. What I don't get is if filament winding is not a performance/quality advantage, why would a supplier claim their rims are when they're not? Because its a buzzword?


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 Post subject: Re: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:39 pm 
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I'm hoping that whatever cost savings resulting from automation gets passed down to the consumers, rather than going to litigation/IP lawyers.


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 Post subject: Re: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:00 pm
Posts: 570
Location: Az USA
Little update, asked Madcow if he could weight my rims (25mm clincher) before building up my wheels and he was super quick in replying with weights, front is 358.4g in 20 hole drilling and rear is 356.9g in 24 hole drilling. Pretty close to FSE's claim of 350g :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:27 am 
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Posts: 1010
at this point, i don't really care what tech is used in the manufacturing. weight/strength/braking performance is all the matters.

can someone report back on the braking performance vs zipp/enve.


@victor. why are you rims not available for purchase in north america? who is selling complete wheelsets? if you have such a pricing advantage why have you not partnered to oem you rims on trek/specialized/..

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 Post subject: FSE wheels?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:58 am 
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AZR3 wrote:
Little update, asked Madcow if he could weight my rims (25mm clincher) before building up my wheels and he was super quick in replying with weights, front is 358.4g in 20 hole drilling and rear is 356.9g in 24 hole drilling. Pretty close to FSE's claim of 350g :thumbup:


Wait, which rims did you get?
https://fairwheelbikes.com/wheels/rims/ ... ory_page=1

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Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

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 Post subject: FSE wheels?
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:58 am 


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