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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Posts: 692
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Just wondering how many in the weightweenies community would consider a 'high' spoke count wheel in today's rim market for a modern build (so not a restoration).

I understand modern rims are quite stiff, and most hubs have nice flange geometry but for some reason I'm attracted to the 'reliability' of a 32h wheel (e.g. if I'm involved in a crash in a race and break a few spokes, I still have 29 and if I broke them symmetrically around the wheel I could probably keep going, but I can't see that happening with 24 spokes or lower).

Does anyone have a modern rim built up 32/32 or 28/32? What do you use it for and what was the total weight?

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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:45 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Posts: 3136
Lots, in fact almost all of my wheels are 28 or 32. Got 2 pairs in use with less (out of about 20 pairs of wheels).

Same as you, i like the repairability and reliability, especially with the roads round here.
Sorry, got no idea of weight, other than "light enough considering what i put them through and expect from them".

The 24s need truing occasionally (mtb wheels though)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
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Double post


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm
Posts: 675
Sure. I have this wheelset:

viewtopic.php?f=113&t=131794&hilit=Mavic+a119&start=15#p1137923

Very durable, reliable and affordable. A couple of months ago I had a branch caugt in the RD, and the RD got caught in the spokes and rotated with the wheel. RD was toast, but the wheel didn't even come out of true.

It's a slow wheelset, but for wintertraining who cares. For summertraining I use my DT R460 rims on DT 240 hubs with 24/28 spokeconfig.

There are also a lot of good hub and rim options for 32/32. Ultegra or 105 are my personal favorites among hubs. The Mavic A119 or Open Pro rims are my favorites among 32h rims.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:42 am
Posts: 111
There are plenty of reasons to do it, your scenario is just one of them. It's long proven and accepted that quantity of spokes is the primary driver of wheel stiffness, #2 being spoke gauge and others following on from there.http://sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel_index.html

A CX Ray/AeroLite/Laser/Revolution spoke + alloy nipple will weigh around 4.6g in lengths used in relevant modern wheels (~270 to 290mm), add 1g for brass nipple instead of alloy. A Race/Competition spoke will be about 1g more. People often overestimate how much spokes weigh and are surprised when they learn that adding 4 spokes to each wheel is going to add somewhere between 35 and 55g to the total weight of the wheel set.

Apart from a desired look, there's no reason to use as many spokes in the front as in the rear in a rim brake wheel set. The rear is more heavily loaded with weight, weaker because of the dish, and transmits drive torque. That said, if you like the look and are willing to accept the extra weight and small aerodynamics penalty of extra spokes, there's no reason not to do it. The wheel won't ride harshly because of it. If your wheel feels harsh, reduce tire pressure and/or use better tires. Most, if not all, modern alloy rims are available up to 32h.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 2044
Location: Vienna Austria
If you have a noodly rim, using a lot of spokes makes sense.

If you have a stiff rim, using fewer *heavier* spokes instead of more light ones is the way to go.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 7:28 pm
Posts: 1019
If you're building custom there's never a real downside to more spokes other than about 5g per spoke/nipple, questionably marginal aerodynamics, the $ cost of additional spokes, and the aesthetics of a non-pro wheel.
Engineers will say "why build more than you need?" and they may be correct that there is no advantage overbuilding, but the penalties are limited to the points above.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am
Posts: 609
istigatrice wrote:
I'm attracted to the 'reliability' of a 32h wheel (e.g. if I'm involved in a crash in a race and break a few spokes, I still have 29 and if I broke them symmetrically around the wheel I could probably keep going,


First, you never ever break spokes symmetrically around the wheel. All the spokes break right next to each other. Second, if you break a spoke, you can never ever keep going. You always have to stop and get out a spoke wrench to adjust the spokes around the broken spoke. With one broken spoke, the wheel will almost certainly be out of true enough to rub the brake pads even with the brake release open. With 32 spokes or less. A 36 spoke wheel can make it alright with one broken spoke without retruing. I use and like 32 spoke wheels. No great reason not to use them.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:43 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 2886
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I have a few pair of campagnolo hubs 28h record and 3 sets of 32H chorus so yes I happily ride higher spoek count than I need. Can't bin them just because they are not "modern".

Purachsed a set of velocity escape tubular rims for one set of chorus hubs.

If you want shallow rims then a higher spoke count make sense.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:15 am 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Posts: 692
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Thanks for all the replies, just to clarify I'm not looking for extra stiffness, most rims are stiff enough for my 60kg weight in a 20/24 count (in fact that's what I'm riding right now). I'm just considering going 'overbuilt' (sticking to the same hub/rim that's served me well in 20/24) so then if say something incredible goes wrong (e.g. stick/shoe into my wheel) I'd have a possibility/likelihood of being able to ride/limp home...

So going from 20/24 to 28/32 is an increase of 16 spokes, that's 80g and perhaps a few watts of aero drag, but how much more 'reliable' would it be? If I broke 3 spokes because of a stick through the wheel (so yes all next to each other on the same side) would I be more likely to ride home on an (adjusted) '25' or '29' spoke wheel than a '17' or '21'? From my experience with 24, the bike is practically unrideable with a few broken spokes, I presume the same is not true with 32? What about 28h?

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I write the weightweenies blog, hope you like it :)

My SwiftCarbon Ultravox

My Velocite Selene

Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:19 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4818
Location: Canada
Nothing is better for a pave wheelset that a pair of 32s. Mine are Record and Dura-Ace hubs with Ambrosio Nemesis rims laced with Sapim CX and CX-Rays. Bomb proof.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 1720
Hed Ardennes + rims. Lots of various builds. 28/32 and 24/28 are great. I've got one factory Hed set that is 18/24 I think as well. All outstanding. It's the best clincher rim, aluminum, that you can build with currently.

Although I have a few sets, I generally don't like 32/32 or 28/28. In my mind, that means the front is either overbuilt, or the rear underbuilt. But, of course that work just fine.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 1728
Location: Welland, Ontario
I did it. 32 X 3x. 1339 g http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=97281

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am
Posts: 750
I did a 24/28 build on DA hubs, XR22T rims, Aerolite spokes last year. I could have gone 24/18 but what is the point.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:58 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 am
Posts: 70
If you are using a carbon rim, I would go for a reduced number of spokes. Carbon does not bend like aluminium and therefore the advantage of a high spoke count is reduced.

But if you want to go fast, the rim depth has far more effect than the spoke count

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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:58 am 


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