Buying Old ('05-'06) Zipp 404s?

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stegosaurus
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:07 pm

by stegosaurus

Hey guys, I have a line on some old 2005 or 2006 dimpled Zipp 404s laced to Chris King classics for under $600. I wanted to build a Chris King classic wheelset and figured this would be as cheap or cheaper than going the Chinese carbon route.

My only question:
Are old zipps still better than Chinese carbon? What are the downsides? I know the rims have gotten better, but most of the info just talks about the hubs getting better.

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kgt
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by kgt

A 10 year old wheelset does not sound like a great idea, even at half the price. I am sure you can find better, non chinese, used wheelsets for $500-$600.

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stegosaurus
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by stegosaurus

kgt wrote:A 10 year old wheelset does not sound like a great idea, even at half the price. I am sure you can find better, non chinese, used wheelsets for $500-$600.

Yeah, that was my thought as well. I guess it just fit what I was looking for. I am looking to build a carbon wheelset with Chris King Classics and the hubs run about 300-400 used typically, so it seemed like an easy buy, but in the end I don't want to waste an extra 200 bucks...

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

30mm modern aluminum rim will perform on par if not better than 10 year old carbon rim due to poor rim profile. Remember that back in the day, it was all about the depth and now it's all about the rim profile. It's a proven fact that modern 32mm carbon rim outperforms 44mm carbon rim from 2013.


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stegosaurus
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:07 pm

by stegosaurus

mpulsiv wrote:30mm modern aluminum rim will perform on par if not better than 10 year old carbon rim due to poor rim profile. Remember that back in the day, it was all about the depth and now it's all about the rim profile. It's a proven fact that modern 32mm carbon rim outperforms 44mm carbon rim from 2013.


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Oh, this I know. To be quite frank, I sometimes err on the side of form over function these days. I most certainly would choose slightly worse performing carbon rims over aluminum based on aesthetics as long as the carbon rims are lightish and strongish and good deal financially. I do not race anymore and probably never will. I enjoy riding and like to look good as well haha.

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LouisN
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by LouisN

Clincher ( alloy brake track) or tubular ( full carbon ) ?
Sounds like a good deal to me.
I wouldn't have any problems choosing the first "thinner in width but torroïdal" dimpled 404's ( 2006 or younger ...?) over any "modern" shallow alloy wheels, or generic carbon ones.
I know a few buddies that use them and love them. They tend to "take" occasional strong side winds as expected from such wheel profiles.

The only drawback would be brake track wear to check before buying.

Louis :)

mrlobber
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by mrlobber

I'm still riding 10 year old Bora Ultras. Good tubular training wheels ;)
Minimum bike categories required in the stable:
Aero bike | GC bike | GC rim bike | Climbing bike | Climbing rim bike | Classics bike | Gravel bike | TT bike | Indoors bike

joec
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by joec

I'm going to disagree with some of this,

check some aero charts, the old 404's still perform pretty well, and they should be a fair chunk lighter than 30mm alloy rims.

main points for me would be are they clinchers, if so I wouldnt touch them,

any marks? whats the brake track like, also check round the spoke holes for issues.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

joec wrote:I'm going to disagree with some of this,

check some aero charts, the old 404's still perform pretty well, and they should be a fair chunk lighter than 30mm alloy rims.

main points for me would be are they clinchers, if so I wouldnt touch them,

any marks? whats the brake track like, also check round the spoke holes for issues.


Old 404's are not fair chunk lighter than 30mm aluminum wheels, unless it's tubular. You have some catching up to do when it comes to modern "U" shape aluminum wheels. Dave from November Bicycles makes a clear statement.

"The changes in the aluminum rim landscape over the past few years have been as profound as those in the carbon landscape, albeit with several orders of magnitude less promotion and hoopla around them. We’ve simply come to the conclusion that once you get past the “ooooohhhhh, carbon!” thing, aluminum clincher rims are simply the better choice for nearly every application (if you’re going for the TT worlds, carbon’s a good choice)."

http://www.novemberbicycles.com/blog/20 ... arbon.html


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stegosaurus
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:07 pm

by stegosaurus

LouisN wrote:Clincher ( alloy brake track) or tubular ( full carbon ) ?
Sounds like a good deal to me.
I wouldn't have any problems choosing the first "thinner in width but torroïdal" dimpled 404's ( 2006 or younger ...?) over any "modern" shallow alloy wheels, or generic carbon ones.
I know a few buddies that use them and love them. They tend to "take" occasional strong side winds as expected from such wheel profiles.

The only drawback would be brake track wear to check before buying.

Louis :)

They are tubular for sure. Also I think they are very late 2004 or early 2005. They have the same decals as the 2005-2007 rims, but they don't have the small red 404 decals, they have the small red and yellow squiggle vclc decals. They are dimpled so they are closer to 05 even if produced in late 04.

stegosaurus
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:07 pm

by stegosaurus

I guess my real question is this:

Are these older Zipps, if in good condition, better than Chinese carbon rims? I was probably going to end up lacing some kings to some LightBicycle rims if I never found these, so what is the better option? Kings laced to 2005 Zipp 404s or Kings laced to 55mm LBs?

joec
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Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:20 pm

by joec

I would say yes they are better,

this is an interesting vid, particualry about the resin temeratures on braking surfaces, and spoke holes. also the vids on gereral bike layup are interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET1jRVynOBA

stegosaurus
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:07 pm

by stegosaurus

joec wrote:I would say yes they are better,

this is an interesting vid, particualry about the resin temeratures on braking surfaces, and spoke holes. also the vids on gereral bike layup are interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET1jRVynOBA


That is an awesome vid, although I wouldn't buy carbon clinchers anyway. I know they're better now, but I'd rather risk dealing with a flat tubular than risk a ruined rim.

joec
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Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:20 pm

by joec

amen to that.

theres some stuff on forks in one of the video's which was an eyeopener for me.

makes me wonder what he'd make of my old spinnergy Rev x front wheel....

by Weenie


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stegosaurus
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:07 pm

by stegosaurus

joec wrote:amen to that.

theres some stuff on forks in one of the video's which was an eyeopener for me.

makes me wonder what he'd make of my old spinnergy Rev x front wheel....

Which video and what did he say? :shock:

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