Shamal Ultra Clincher vs Bora One 35 Tubular

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

sawyer
Posts: 4485
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

My Bora Ones (two sets of the wider 15- versions) were pretty much perfect and nothing that looked like your nick

That said from what you've said in fact it is very very shallow and almost certainly not a structural issue.

But as others have said, why not at least try and warranty them?

If I was selling those secondhand I'd come clean about the nick, and that would obviously reduce re-sale value. Fundamentally, safety aside, your purchase is worth less which isn't great ...
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

sawyer wrote:My Bora Ones (two sets of the wider 15- versions) were pretty much perfect and nothing that looked like your nick

That said from what you've said in fact it is very very shallow and almost certainly not a structural issue.

But as others have said, why not at least try and warranty them?

If I was selling those secondhand I'd come clean about the nick, and that would obviously reduce re-sale value. Fundamentally, safety aside, your purchase is worth less which isn't great ...



Ok, today i got info from Campagnolo and now i know what is the problem, and who made it.. Another thing that i need to know, and please share it with me (it gonna help me a lot)

Is it ur serial number matched (same), on front and rear wheel? Or they are different?

Thanks

User avatar
JKolmo
Posts: 654
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:00 pm

by JKolmo

sawyer wrote:If I was selling those secondhand I'd come clean about the nick, and that would obviously reduce re-sale value. Fundamentally, safety aside, your purchase is worth less which isn't great ...


Well, if it affects second hand resale value it certainly should affect first hand sale value. Get a discount from the seller, or send them back for warranty. [emoji3]

fogman
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:36 pm

by fogman

Is the serial number located on the tiny sticker next to the authenticity sticker? If so, the top number matches but the bottom number does not.
Image
Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's all downhill from here, except for the uphills.

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

fogman wrote:Is the serial number located on the tiny sticker next to the authenticity sticker? If so, the top number matches but the bottom number does not.
Image
Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thanks a lot.. U help me e a lot with this

User avatar
dj97223
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm

by dj97223

What has Campagnolo told you? :noidea:
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

dj97223 wrote:What has Campagnolo told you? :noidea:


Since im trying to be fair, and give chance for explanation/acceptable solution, i'll post it tommorow what was happened, and if that was just a mistake, or someone tried to sell me a Lemon and knowing that.

Anyway, Campagnolo was very cooperative, and very professional in all this and helped me a lot.

Thanks a lot ot for ur posts as well, that help me to want to discover where the problem really was.

One last question: If i decide to keep them, what would be fair discount for that? (warranty still valid, but seem that serials are not matching front and rear, and seem that they are made from two different pairs)

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

3Pio wrote:One last question: If i decide to keep them, what would be fair discount for that? (warranty still valid, but seem that serials are not matching front and rear, and seem that they are made from two different pairs)

The serial number for an indivdual wheel is the serial number for that individual wheel. They don't get made as pairs.

As for the other issues though, just send them back, get some perfect wheels wth the right parts.

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

wingguy wrote:
3Pio wrote:One last question: If i decide to keep them, what would be fair discount for that? (warranty still valid, but seem that serials are not matching front and rear, and seem that they are made from two different pairs)

The serial number for an indivdual wheel is the serial number for that individual wheel. They don't get made as pairs.

As for the other issues though, just send them back, get some perfect wheels wth the right parts.



U are wrong. There is serial number that come for wheelset in pair, and other serial that are for replacement wheels.

If u check fogman serials, u'll notice part which is the same 0135662 on both wheels, which indicate that are paired wheelset. I compared with my friends wheels as well, and they started as well with 0135xxx.

And as i understund at least for 2015 models, if they are in pair they all start with 0135xxx

In my case this is what i got from the Campagnolo when i asked them for my wheels:

"

- 1140468 is a campagnolo code for a pair of Bora one wheels
- 0135702 is a campagnolo code for a single Bora one front wheel"

About returning them back, that will be one of the solutions for me, complicate solution, but a solution (a lot of complication and expense with customs, spedition, ). So thats why thinking to keep them if i be offered fair discount because of all this (i still dont know what will be fair discount in this situation, and i'll think about it if the warranty is not broken).


Anyway, waiting for official reply from the store i bought them, and their offer for acceptable solution after all..

So i'll wait until tommorow, and let u know about outcome of all this, and if someone tried to sell me a Lemon, or it's mistake that they are willing to fix

AJS914
Posts: 5399
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Considering the complications with returning them, I'd just ride them and take whatever discount is offered.

After all, the pics posted are magnifications. That little minor defect is probably tiny in real life and hard to notice. I don't think it would even affect future resale.

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

AJS914 wrote:Considering the complications with returning them, I'd just ride them and take whatever discount is offered.

After all, the pics posted are magnifications. That little minor defect is probably tiny in real life and hard to notice. I don't think it would even affect future resale.


I dont agree on this. Even it's cosmetic, their resale value is affected (small nick on braking surface, and non paired wheelset (which can be noticed by responses of others here as well).

I still wonder if they send it like this by mistake , or they knew it and tried to put me a Lemon which nobody want or someone returned allready (both case, not my fault...)

Anyway before i have final conclusion what happened i'll wait for the official response and acceptable solution about this (specially that i spend not small amount of money there in last year and half)

AJS914
Posts: 5399
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I still don't agree as I don't really get the resale value argument. After a few years of use, that little blemish won't mean anything as far as resale.

Non-matching serial numbers - it's not like this is some vintage collectible camera. If they weren't required for warranty, I'd take those ugly bar code stickers off of my wheels.

But, I totally understand spending a lot of money and not getting what you thought you were getting. So send the wheels back and get a new set.

User avatar
pdlpsher1
Posts: 4020
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

These tiny nicks are no big deal. I have a set of Bora 50's and I have a couple of these small nicks. The nicks don't affect braking at all. They are so small such that you really have to look hard to see them. I believe these are tiny voids and hence is not a defect but just a carbon fiber manufacturing artifact/byproduct.

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

AJS914 wrote:I still don't agree as I don't really get the resale value argument. After a few years of use, that little blemish won't mean anything as far as resale.

Non-matching serial numbers - it's not like this is some vintage collectible camera. If they weren't required for warranty, I'd take those ugly bar code stickers off of my wheels.

But, I totally understand spending a lot of money and not getting what you thought you were getting. So send the wheels back and get a new set.


Non Matching numbers and missing bushings suggest that someone already refused the front damaged one, and obviosly based on all this having lower value as brand new set. Also u can see this based on replys on other members here in same thread (few posts earlier).

Also if there is cosmetic damage/dents/nicks, or they are refurbished it have to be clear declared before selling.

I checked few of the online retaliers and they have heavy discounts for this kind of products. For example:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mk/e ... prod156890

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mk/e ... prod150411

And u can see they clearly declare this (and also having heavelly discounts for this kind of products).

"Recycled items have imperfections or suffered wear during the course of sale here at Chain Reaction Cycles. They include Ex-Display, Ex-Demo, Cosmetic Damage or Refurbished items that have been returned by customers, repaired by suppliers or have scratches or minor damage from transport or display."

Any nick/dent/scratch have influence of resale, specially on carbon.

Also i worked few years with germans here, and made a lot of german friends. Since the first answer i got was on german, and with google translate to english, i was not able to understund, so asked one of that friends to translate me (he is riding a bikes as well). When he realized why i need that translation, his opinion (copy-paste from the chat we had, but in short nobody in Germany seem that will accept to buy this, at least not for full price):

"I would not accept because carbon is an esthetic material and should look exclusive.
The customer did pay full amount of money and should receive a 100% product.
I don't think it should happen
I would say that is not the. Eat Position the company can take.
That means it could also be possible to burst.
If you are on a downhill with the speed of 60 km or more. You don't want your rim to burst.
I don't know if that would really happen but I'm Germany no buyer would accept!
If you did pay whole amount of money I would not accept this scratch on a carbon rim.


I asked Campagnolo about opinion about this, and they are saying the wheelset are safe, but to let them know in advance that i got them like this, and in the case of spreading to ask for warranty...


So the main question here is:

Is this part of just mistake? Or maybe someone tried to get rid of this wheelset, based on fact that i'll have a lot of expenses and complication in the case of the return?


pdlpsher1 wrote:These tiny nicks are no big deal. I have a set of Bora 50's and I have a couple of these small nicks. The nicks don't affect braking at all. They are so small such that you really have to look hard to see them. I believe these are tiny voids and hence is not a defect but just a carbon fiber manufacturing artifact/byproduct.


Im sure ur nicks/dents become after u use and U did not buy them like that. And also pretty sure that u got complete wheelset, with bushings installed and matching serials.And please if u can, put some pics from ur nicks/dents just to see how it can be after a use.

And no, it's not part of manufcaturing process.. I checked 5 pairs of my friends NONE of them have this kind of dents (one of this pair is oredered from the same place, based on my suggestion), even they use them for almost one year. Just for fun, we checked my friends Chineese Tubulars, and even this wheelset dont have any damage, nicks, dents...

Campagnolo think that this is part of " a superficial scratch due to a mild impact with… something."


Also probably this will not escalate this far (consulting forum, Campagnolo, friends..), if i got clear answers in the first place about missing bushings, and answer on the question if this wheelset are refurbished/demo or something...

I really hope that is just part of mistake, and not that someone wanted to use the fact, that returning back of the wheelset will produce a lot of expenses and complication for me.Specially that i gave my trust there, and spend more then 4000 eur in last year and half...For now i believe that this is mistake , But we'll see :)

In any case i expect explanation and solution that wont produce me more costs, and that will be on pair for what i'll get at the end, and that will not influence the warranty or quality of use (in any case).

Before any more details about all this, im waiting for official reply and possible acceptable solution for this, so we will see :)

Anyway, thanks a lot for anyone here who help me to realize all this.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
dj97223
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm

by dj97223

Has your issue been resolved?
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

Post Reply