Excellent, no, good yes. IME most Veloflex open tubulars have good puncture resistance.
Anyway, we are discussing something else...
Back to 23mm
Moderator: robbosmans
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
sunki wrote:Actually, I am focusing on safty when i ride. Down heel. In this respect, 25c is more stable in downhill cornering.
Not necessarily. On a narrower rim a wider tyre IMO feels less surefooted. As the rim gets wider at some point you're right that a 25 will feel more stable
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!!
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!!
It depends on the tire. A high quality 25mm tire will feel better, more comfortable, more surefooted even on narrow rims.
Here's what I've found in my long term comparative testing with pre 2015 Boras (20.5mm rim width) and post 2015 Boras (24.2mm rim width), using Veloflex 22mm, 23mm, 24mm and 25mm tires on the older Boras and 25mm tires on the new Boras. All Tubular by the way, and that's an important distinction because clinchers set up much differently depending on the rim and tire used.
- The older 22mm Veloflex Carbons are just too small a tire for a guy my size (200lbs). When Velolflex made some changes to accommodate the trend to wider tires (22mm Carbons were widened to 23mm and the 24mm Roubaix were widened to 25mm, along with the introduction of the 25mm Arrenberg, I switched to 23mm Carbons on my older Boras.
- The 23mm Carbons were better on the older Boras but every now and then I felt a little sketchy on high speed descents in the wind. Obviously the 50mm Boras were contributing to this.
- I tried for a brief time the 24mm Roubaixs on the 50mm Boras... mostly for aesthetic reasons. Liked the wider tire a bit better, It is more stable, perhaps there is more volume dampening things that make the wheel feel sketchy. But it was a little better for someone my weight than the 23mm.
- Finally, I tried the 25mm Arrenberg (still on Older Boras), and this indeed dampened the sketchiness of the ride even more instilling a bit more confidence in descending at speed, especially if windy. The trouble with the 25mm tires on a narrow rim is that they weren't an ideal match fit wise. The narrow rim tends to squash the fatter tire somewhat, and push it up a bit. I found this created a lesser bond between the base tape and middle section of the rim bed. I never experienced any problems due to this but I did notice it when I removed 25mm tires from the rims versus the bond with a 23mm tire on the same rim. (same glue, same technique, same rider, etc). The biggest issue I found was the clearance between the crown of my forks (C59/EPQ) and the 25mm tires. They cleared, but just barely, and when road debris would stick to the tire, it caused an annoying chatter going through the fork.... not a big deal, but an annoyance...
Underside of fork crown from using 25mm Veloflex tubulars with pre 2015 Boras...
Conclusion using the narrower Boras: Great wheels, 23mm seemed to be the "fastest" to me. I tried actual timed testing between 23's and 25's but couldn't get meaningful results, hence I'm saying the 23mm seem the fastest. In reality, I'm sure it's negligible. The 25's however, did add a significant amount of stability to the system, they just didn't fit the rim as nicely and the clearance issue I just mentioned was an annoyance to me, but bearable.
Enter 2015 with the wider 24.2mm Boras.
Love em! I mounted 25mm Arrenbergs on them and never looked back. They fit perfectly, and the combo is more stable than 25's on the narrower rims. The added width of the rim has to contribute somewhat to the stability as well. But, and the biggest reason I got them in the first place, is that the clearance issue I had previously is completely eliminated. The wider rim is all that was needed for the 25mm profile to sit more comfortably in its more relaxed radius rim bed. As such, it doesn't get squeezed and pushed up an extra 1.5mm than from where it really wants to sit in its natural state. The result is I can use the 25mm tires in all of my bikes now and experience zero clearance issues or chatter. I've never even tried the 23mm tires on the new Boras, except for mounting them dry. When I did this, the brake track was more exposed than I'd like it to be. So, my nirvana goto at this point is definitely the newer Boras with either a 24mm or 25mm tubular tire. Anything beyond a 25mm for the road is overkill and becomes spongy feeling in my opinion, at least on the fairly good roads that I'm used to. On bad roads, well... you'd have to experiment for yourself to find what works best for you.
What is interesting is that even though the new Boras had been out for quite some time, I saw pictures of Quintana still on the older narrow Boras and narrow tires. Now if anyone would have access to the newest stuff, it would be him, right. I suspect that if you're a really light rider, then you're not really getting a whole lot of benefit from a wider tire. And I do think that with optimal pressure (not the same pressure) in each tire for a given riders weight, the narrower tire will be faster. And then I've seen more recent pics of Quintanas setup with the new Boras, and narrower tires mounted. So there you have it... you pick what you feel best on.
- The older 22mm Veloflex Carbons are just too small a tire for a guy my size (200lbs). When Velolflex made some changes to accommodate the trend to wider tires (22mm Carbons were widened to 23mm and the 24mm Roubaix were widened to 25mm, along with the introduction of the 25mm Arrenberg, I switched to 23mm Carbons on my older Boras.
- The 23mm Carbons were better on the older Boras but every now and then I felt a little sketchy on high speed descents in the wind. Obviously the 50mm Boras were contributing to this.
- I tried for a brief time the 24mm Roubaixs on the 50mm Boras... mostly for aesthetic reasons. Liked the wider tire a bit better, It is more stable, perhaps there is more volume dampening things that make the wheel feel sketchy. But it was a little better for someone my weight than the 23mm.
- Finally, I tried the 25mm Arrenberg (still on Older Boras), and this indeed dampened the sketchiness of the ride even more instilling a bit more confidence in descending at speed, especially if windy. The trouble with the 25mm tires on a narrow rim is that they weren't an ideal match fit wise. The narrow rim tends to squash the fatter tire somewhat, and push it up a bit. I found this created a lesser bond between the base tape and middle section of the rim bed. I never experienced any problems due to this but I did notice it when I removed 25mm tires from the rims versus the bond with a 23mm tire on the same rim. (same glue, same technique, same rider, etc). The biggest issue I found was the clearance between the crown of my forks (C59/EPQ) and the 25mm tires. They cleared, but just barely, and when road debris would stick to the tire, it caused an annoying chatter going through the fork.... not a big deal, but an annoyance...
Underside of fork crown from using 25mm Veloflex tubulars with pre 2015 Boras...
Conclusion using the narrower Boras: Great wheels, 23mm seemed to be the "fastest" to me. I tried actual timed testing between 23's and 25's but couldn't get meaningful results, hence I'm saying the 23mm seem the fastest. In reality, I'm sure it's negligible. The 25's however, did add a significant amount of stability to the system, they just didn't fit the rim as nicely and the clearance issue I just mentioned was an annoyance to me, but bearable.
Enter 2015 with the wider 24.2mm Boras.
Love em! I mounted 25mm Arrenbergs on them and never looked back. They fit perfectly, and the combo is more stable than 25's on the narrower rims. The added width of the rim has to contribute somewhat to the stability as well. But, and the biggest reason I got them in the first place, is that the clearance issue I had previously is completely eliminated. The wider rim is all that was needed for the 25mm profile to sit more comfortably in its more relaxed radius rim bed. As such, it doesn't get squeezed and pushed up an extra 1.5mm than from where it really wants to sit in its natural state. The result is I can use the 25mm tires in all of my bikes now and experience zero clearance issues or chatter. I've never even tried the 23mm tires on the new Boras, except for mounting them dry. When I did this, the brake track was more exposed than I'd like it to be. So, my nirvana goto at this point is definitely the newer Boras with either a 24mm or 25mm tubular tire. Anything beyond a 25mm for the road is overkill and becomes spongy feeling in my opinion, at least on the fairly good roads that I'm used to. On bad roads, well... you'd have to experiment for yourself to find what works best for you.
What is interesting is that even though the new Boras had been out for quite some time, I saw pictures of Quintana still on the older narrow Boras and narrow tires. Now if anyone would have access to the newest stuff, it would be him, right. I suspect that if you're a really light rider, then you're not really getting a whole lot of benefit from a wider tire. And I do think that with optimal pressure (not the same pressure) in each tire for a given riders weight, the narrower tire will be faster. And then I've seen more recent pics of Quintanas setup with the new Boras, and narrower tires mounted. So there you have it... you pick what you feel best on.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Calnago wrote:I suspect that if you're a really light rider, then you're not really getting a whole lot of benefit from a wider tire. And I do think that with optimal pressure (not the same pressure) in each tire for a given riders weight, the narrower tire will be faster. And then I've seen more recent pics of Quintanas setup with the new Boras, and narrower tires mounted. So there you have it... you pick what you feel best on.
Exactly. One of the reasons wider tires are trendy is because more and more guys who don't have the typical physique of a competitive cyclist are into competitive cycling. Heavier, taller guys will definitely benefit from wider tires while a 172cm 65kg rider might still prefer the narrower tires. Certainly he will not have any disadvantage riding them.
That is some serious paint scratches on the underside of your fork crown.
I have plenty of clearance but still try to protect the underside of my fork crown. The product I use is called VViViD Matte Vinyl Car Wrap.
https://vvividshop.com/collections/automotive-films
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have plenty of clearance but still try to protect the underside of my fork crown. The product I use is called VViViD Matte Vinyl Car Wrap.
https://vvividshop.com/collections/automotive-films
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's all downhill from here, except for the uphills.
Not many people are going to see the underside of the fork, and the car vinyl rubs through in seconds when there's contact with the tire.
Calnago wrote:I saw pictures of Quintana still on the older narrow Boras and narrow tires. Now if anyone would have access to the newest stuff, it would be him, right. I suspect that if you're a really light rider, then you're not really getting a whole lot of benefit from a wider tire
Contrary to popular belief, a narrower setup will also be more aerodynamic at low yaw, so if you're going plenty fast (like e.g. a GC contender) and you aren't seeing strong crosswinds, narrow wheels make a lot of sense if your sponsor allows you to ride them...
Agree completely. In my case, while I'd do believe the narrower tire and the old Boras are in fact the "faster" wheel in an all out drag race, my weight and size tends to look for a little more stability than the narrow setup provides. Thus the new Boras and a 24-25mm tire seem ideal, for me.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
-
cmcdonnell
- Posts: 278
- Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:50 pm
kgt wrote:Calnago wrote:I suspect that if you're a really light rider, then you're not really getting a whole lot of benefit from a wider tire. And I do think that with optimal pressure (not the same pressure) in each tire for a given riders weight, the narrower tire will be faster. And then I've seen more recent pics of Quintanas setup with the new Boras, and narrower tires mounted. So there you have it... you pick what you feel best on.
Exactly. One of the reasons wider tires are trendy is because more and more guys who don't have the typical physique of a competitive cyclist are into competitive cycling. Heavier, taller guys will definitely benefit from wider tires while a 172cm 65kg rider might still prefer the narrower tires. Certainly he will not have any disadvantage riding them.
Yeah makes sense to me. I do not like the feel of 25mm tyres on my 17C Bora clinchers, just feel and look (27.5mm inflated) too big. 23mm tyres feel fastest on them (inflate to 24-25mm) and most comfortable. I am using 25mm tyres on my narrow 15C Shamals purely because they do have more grip on wet / cruddy roads but I don't like the feel on high speed descents on dry roads, the Boras on 23mm's are amazing. I run the 23mm tyres at 90 psi front and 95 psi rear and I weigh 56 kg (1.68M) so pretty much the same as Quintana, just need another 100 watts!
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra
Well, 25mm clinchers on the 17c rims will be much bigger than 25mm tubulars. In fact, 23mm clinchers on the same width rim will end up being much closer in size to a 25mm tubular when all is said and done. And even though I think I've seen Quintanas new Boras with 22mm Continue Pro Ltd Comps on them, I doubt if he's still doing that. Not because he might not like them, but sponsors may want to see the wider tires on those wheels. And in fairness, 22mm tires are really not a good fit for the new Boras just as 25mm tubulars are not the best fit for the old Boras. I still have my old Boras but am sticking to 23-24mm tires on those. I also have some old Nueutron clinchers that I have 25mm Conti 4000s tires on. They're very balloony looking and I have to actually let air out of them or turn the brake adjuster some more beyond just releasing the brake release to get them out. Kind of a hassle. With 25mm tubulars on the new Boras, I don't even have to release the brake caliper, just open the skewer and they're easily removed.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
Has anyone had wide tires (27mm Vittoria Pave tubs in this case) cause the bike to become darty on high speed straight descents? I have a few sets of Vlaanderen that I'm not sure I want to glue up if that's the case. 23mm and 25mm Veloflex have been flawless.
