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 Post subject: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:47 pm
Posts: 69
Since 2 years I am using the well known 25mm tires on my new bike. On previous bikes I always used to have the 23mm tires.

To be honest, 25mm tires are comfortable. Not extremely comfortable, but slightly more comfortable than 23mm tires.

However..., I can't get used of the steering and handling of them. I constantly have the feeling that I am using my mountain bike, at least from a front wheel perspective. Yes, my rear wheel clearly has a bit more grip in corners.

But still..., according to my "feeling" 25mm tires are slow. In steering, like I have mentioned and also when I am accelerating. And then I don't mean the weight. I can't imagine that those extra 2x20 grams slows you down. It is really the suspension of the wider tire that is less reactive and absorbing energy. Both on the front- and rear wheel. And I have tried to play with the pressure of the tires of course.

So is this only me..., or is this being experienced by more people ?

Thinking about getting back to 23mm though.

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 Post subject: Back to 23mm
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:30 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:49 am
Posts: 502
Alumen wrote:
Since 2 years I am using the well known 25mm tires on my new bike. On previous bikes I always used to have the 23mm tires.

To be honest, 25mm tires are comfortable. Not extremely comfortable, but slightly more comfortable than 23mm tires.

However..., I can't get used of the steering and handling of them. I constantly have the feeling that I am using my mountain bike, at least from a front wheel perspective. Yes, my rear wheel clearly has a bit more grip in corners.

But still..., according to my "feeling" 25mm tires are slow. In steering, like I have mentioned and also when I am accelerating. And then I don't mean the weight. I can't imagine that those extra 2x20 grams slows you down. It is really the suspension of the wider tire that is less reactive and absorbing energy. Both on the front- and rear wheel. And I have tried to play with the pressure of the tires of course.

So is this only me..., or is this being experienced by more people ?

Thinking about getting back to 23mm though.


A good compromise would be to use 23 F and 25 R.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:26 pm 
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in the industry
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 1772
Location: SYD
I prefer 23s on a wide rim.. They run same width as the rim, still have more air under em so you can run lower pressures and have a way better profile that lets you lean the bike over more

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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 2463
Location: Vienna Austria
On most of my wheels, the 23s are 24/25mm wide, whereas the 25s are more like 27, which is too wide.

My favorite tire for tarmac is currently a 23mm Veloflex Master on a 25mm 18c rim.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:47 pm
Posts: 69
audiophilitis wrote:
Alumen wrote:
Since 2 years I am using the well known 25mm tires on my new bike. On previous bikes I always used to have the 23mm tires.

To be honest, 25mm tires are comfortable. Not extremely comfortable, but slightly more comfortable than 23mm tires.

However..., I can't get used of the steering and handling of them. I constantly have the feeling that I am using my mountain bike, at least from a front wheel perspective. Yes, my rear wheel clearly has a bit more grip in corners.

But still..., according to my "feeling" 25mm tires are slow. In steering, like I have mentioned and also when I am accelerating. And then I don't mean the weight. I can't imagine that those extra 2x20 grams slows you down. It is really the suspension of the wider tire that is less reactive and absorbing energy. Both on the front- and rear wheel. And I have tried to play with the pressure of the tires of course.

So is this only me..., or is this being experienced by more people ?

Thinking about getting back to 23mm though.


A good compromise would be to use 23 F and 25 R.


That is an option I am considering indeed.

Regarding my rims, these are 15C Campy's. Might be that 23mm simply has a better fit. More aero as well 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:28 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:08 pm
Posts: 177
I put 25s (IRC tubeless) on a Stans rim and it ballooned out to 27 mm. The steering was noticeably slower so much that I kept thinking I had a slow leak or some other problem. I switched back to 23s, which measure at 25 on these rims and the steering issue was fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:42 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm
Posts: 825
I use 23's. I've heard the arguments for using 25's but in my view its a solution for a problem I don't have. On my gravel bike I use 32's but the intended use is quite different. I also keep coming back to the fact that 2 mm is just barely more than the width of a nickel which is 1.95 mm. As far as making for a more comfortable ride, perhaps people are on the wrong frame.

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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:19 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Some airport somewhere
sugarkane wrote:
I prefer 23s on a wide rim.. They run same width as the rim, still have more air under em so you can run lower pressures and have a way better profile that lets you lean the bike over more


Same here. Love 'em. I run them around 80-85 PSI on Pacenti SL23 (V2) rims and they're the closest thing to the ride and handling of fine tubulars I've ever used.

I don't care much for 25s for paved road riding for the reasons the OP gives. They seem less crisp and precise. It's only slight, but it feels somewhat noticeable to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:10 am
Posts: 292
The wide tire, low pressure craze has passed over my head. I've tried'em and wasn't impressed. My favorite is still 23mm GP4000 on 23mm external rims at 110 & 115 psi. I only ride on smooth pavement.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 1110
Location: Loveland, CO
I really like my 23mm/25mm Conti GP4K combination on 17C internal width rims. I run 90psi on both of them. I like the planted feel of the 25mm on the back on the climbs. I don't do tight corners all day long so handling is not a big issue. The 23mm front on 24mm externally wide rims is perfect for aero and handling.

If your rim is only 15C then the Conti GP4K 25mm is a bad fit for the rim. I'd stick to 23mm. However the Conti 25mm feels wonderful on a wider rim.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:05 am 
Online

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:55 pm
Posts: 130
I actually feel the same, back to 23s on my 23mm wide rims. I ride 25mm Schwalbe One right now and they ballon up to 27mm, too much IMO. Used to ride a pair of cheap Vittoria Rubino Pros in 23mm last fall/spring and they gave a very nice match between tyre and rim width.
Next set of tyres for these wheels will be a set of 23s.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:56 pm
Posts: 129
Been running 25mm on the summer bike and just now I'm back on the winter bike and I run 23mm on that for extra clearance for the fenders. The 23mm do seem to be somewhat nicer running.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 4439
Location: Natovi Landing
Yes, more nimble handling on 23s for sure

Even better on 21s if it's dry and the roads are smooth - they are preferable

Smooth rim/tyre transition is important, but the wide craze thing is way overdone
at least for road

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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm
Posts: 825
If I need something wider than 23's then I go all the way to 32's and switch to my gravel bike.

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Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)


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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:47 pm
Posts: 69
At least I've found some "rocket science" that proves my thoughts...

"The problem comes when riders, having read about all the benefits of wider tires, mount a pair of them on the 15C wide alloy stock wheels that came with most of our new bikes or the upgrade alloy wheels sold by most of the leading wheel makers for the last 3-5 years. A 25C tire on a 15C wheel can feel squishy, even more so if you’ve reduced the air pressure to get more comfort. This squishy feel is a symptom of the tire losing its shape and its tendency to fold back on itself. This is the opposite of the improved handling you are looking for by going to a wider tire."

Source: https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/04/03 ... eel-sizes/

So the answer to my question is, on my 15C Campy rims, I simply need to go back to 23mm indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Back to 23mm
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:56 pm 


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