These things look pretty nice, and have triplet specific non-drive flange geometry. I'm curious to hear all of your opinions on how they compare: http://www.bikerumor.com/2016/10/11/mar ... ts-wheels/
On a related note, in the article they say triplet lacing won't work with "offset rims or rims with spoke holes angle to either side to align with the spokes". In that second case, they obviously won't work if the rim is directionally drilled, but I don't see why you couldn't do a triplet lacing pattern with a simple offset rim as long as it was center drilled. At some point, with a big enough offset, your tension balance might reverse and be higher on the non-drive, but I suspect there is some potential benefit for an offset rim on many triplet rims. What's your take on that?
New Triplet Lacing hub option
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gtinut wrote:http://www.williamscycling.com/assets/images/product%20tech/Bicycle%20Wheel%20Spoke%20Lacing.pdf.
Nothing to do with triplet lacing.. Also the modelling is no where near detailed enough to produce any hard data..
Triplet hubs allow much wider bracing angles ( very good for lateral stiffness ) while keeping the NDS tension high enough to be fuctional to even very good...
$500 for a pair of WI hubs?!?
Okay. Glad I already have a set of the triplet hubs.
Okay. Glad I already have a set of the triplet hubs.
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TheDarkInstall
- Posts: 725
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sugarkane wrote:gtinut wrote:http://www.williamscycling.com/assets/images/product%20tech/Bicycle%20Wheel%20Spoke%20Lacing.pdf.
Nothing to do with triplet lacing.. Also the modelling is no where near detailed enough to produce any hard data..
Triplet hubs allow much wider bracing angles ( very good for lateral stiffness ) while keeping the NDS tension high enough to be fuctional to even very good...
Alright mate.
...how do triplet hubs allow for much wider bracing angles? This is determined by the centre to flange and flange diameter, which is not affected by the number of spokes (unless I am missing something obvious?)
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istigatrice
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Spoke tensions 
- for a 'regular' wheel pushing the flange out too far will result in low NDS spoke tensions. I'm sure there are people reading this forum who are better equipped to explain this than me (but I hope the idea is right).
- for a 'regular' wheel pushing the flange out too far will result in low NDS spoke tensions. I'm sure there are people reading this forum who are better equipped to explain this than me (but I hope the idea is right).I write the weightweenies blog, hope you like it 
Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)
Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)
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TheDarkInstall
- Posts: 725
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LOL, I must have been having an aneurysm this morning when I typed that.
Duh.
On a slight tangent ( ), has anyone actually experienced a 1:1 hub having too wide a NDS, resulting in too low a NDS tension? Extralite, for example, have a 42mm centre to NDS flange, on the CyberRear SP, which still has enough tension in it. Adding anything more than 5mm to that, would mean the spokes are in serious danger of hitting the chainstays / Speedometer, etc., but even with that extra 5mm, I think the tensions would be passable...?
Duh.
On a slight tangent (
), has anyone actually experienced a 1:1 hub having too wide a NDS, resulting in too low a NDS tension? Extralite, for example, have a 42mm centre to NDS flange, on the CyberRear SP, which still has enough tension in it. Adding anything more than 5mm to that, would mean the spokes are in serious danger of hitting the chainstays / Speedometer, etc., but even with that extra 5mm, I think the tensions would be passable...?TheDarkInstall wrote:LOL, I must have been having an aneurysm this morning when I typed that.
Duh.
On a slight tangent (
haha....
so the extralites has enough but buy the skin of it's teeth. i push the drive sides on the SP hubs to 125kgf on average and get around 46kgf average on the non drive sides.. now if that tension is much below 40kgf it basically will be slack with rider weight and no effort been applied. That is not a good thing. Even tension on these hubs is really dam important unless your comfortable with half the NDS spokes been along for the ride... its a hub that ( and i have been pushing for ) that 2:1 lacing will take from a very good light weight platform too a freeking amazing one..
That flange spacing for that rear hub is 17.4mm right and 50.7 left. It's mean to be laced radial with the heads out on the left.
You want the left flange far out for 2:1 lacing and further in for 1:1.
The stiffness improvement for 2:1 comes from being able to put more spokes on the drive side.
The durability advantage from 2:1 comes from having more tension on the left.
- Position of the right flange is determined by the cassette, so "wide flange spacing" in the rear only means the left flange position.
- 2:1 lacing has a better left side bracing angle, but fewer spokes that do the bracing
- A similar stiffness bias & good durability can be achieved by using thicker spokes on the drive side and tensioning them higher so the left side spokes can also run more tension.
The stiffness improvement for 2:1 comes from being able to put more spokes on the drive side.
The durability advantage from 2:1 comes from having more tension on the left.
- Position of the right flange is determined by the cassette, so "wide flange spacing" in the rear only means the left flange position.
- 2:1 lacing has a better left side bracing angle, but fewer spokes that do the bracing
- A similar stiffness bias & good durability can be achieved by using thicker spokes on the drive side and tensioning them higher so the left side spokes can also run more tension.
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bm0p700f
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I will be commisioning Miche to make me a set of proper 2:1 hubs next year. Got to order 200 pairs though but I have the design workout it will be based on one of there existing hubs but modifies for 2:1 lacing. NDS flange to centre will be 50mm. There will be a large 68mm PCD DS flange and rear hub weight will be about 260g.
So the perfect 2:! hub is coming.
So the perfect 2:! hub is coming.
bm0p700f wrote:I will be commisioning Miche to make me a set of proper 2:1 hubs next year. Got to order 200 pairs though but I have the design workout it will be based on one of there existing hubs but modifies for 2:1 lacing. NDS flange to centre will be 50mm. There will be a large 68mm PCD DS flange and rear hub weight will be about 260g.
So the perfect 2:! hub is coming.
Pics and cross sectional drawings will be welcome whenever you have them ready. Curious what your goal is with the large diameter DS flange, care to elaborate on the advantages?
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bm0p700f
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The large flange diameter improve torsional stiffness which in turn reduces tension changes on the DS spokes (and NDS spokes) a bit. It is a marginal effect but it is there. The weight penelty is not high so on balance I think it is worth it.
TheKaiser wrote:in the article they say triplet lacing won't work with "[i]offset rims
Doesn't offset rims eliminate all the reasons for triplet lacing and other nonsense? Offset rims get the spokes almost equal in length and equal in tension on both sides of the rim. My offset rims have pretty symmetrical spoke angles on both sides. And pretty equal tension on both sides.
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RussellS wrote:TheKaiser wrote:in the article they say triplet lacing won't work with "[i]offset rims
Doesn't offset rims eliminate all the reasons for triplet lacing and other nonsense? Offset rims get the spokes almost equal in length and equal in tension on both sides of the rim. My offset rims have pretty symmetrical spoke angles on both sides. And pretty equal tension on both sides.
On average the left flange is about twice as far from center as the right (34mm vs 17mm). Most offset rims are about 2mm. It will not make the angles equal, but it does improve things (32mm vs 19mm).
This is all basic geometry. If you sketch out your build as if it's a vector diagram you can get a better idea of what's at play.
