All around semi-aero wheelset options - HED vs Zipp vs others

[nemeseri]

I'm on the market to buy an all around wheelset and I keep debating between options.

I wasn't sure that carbon wheels are for me, so I bought a used tubular reynolds assault wheelset 2 months ago. I was really surprised by the stiffness, braking and overall performance of these wheels. Especially for the price I paid for them ($600). On the other hand I'm not that sure that there are any benefits of getting a new set of wheels compared to the reynolds.

I'd appreciate any first hand experiences with the wheelsets below. Also about whether there is anything to gain.

My options:

1) HED Stinger 5 - seems to be tried and true, given it's around for a long time now. I can't find any info on the braking performance though. I like the brand and the way they look.

2) Zipp Firecrest 303 Tubular - Zipp recently reduced the price of these and I can order a pair for $1,700. That's $400 cheaper than the list price of the HEDs. My only problem with these is that I'm not a huge fan of Zipp as a brand.

3) HED Jet 4+ Black - clincher, heavy, good braking and limited tire options. I'd probably have to run a 22mm tire in front to have all the aero benefits of the wheel. It's also very expensive.

4) Boyd 44mm tubular - Cheaper than the others, but I have no info about braking and I have doubts about how aero is compared to the others in my list.

Any other options I missed? I won't pay more than $2,100 so ENVE and other high-end wheels won't be considered. Also I'm not a fan of carbon clinchers.

[ultyguy]

I've had Hed Stinger 5's for a few years now and it's become my go to wheel. They're not the lightest option out there but the hubs are good and the wheels have maintained stiffness over a couple of years of battering. They also have traditional spokes so no issues replacing one etc if need be. Braking is average I'd say for carbon, no special coating or anything. I generally have used swiss stop yellow pads with them. Campagnolo red pads seemed to generate a bit too much friction and heat for them in my experience. Aero is definitely above average. You can often find them on ebay for reasonable.

If you want a lighter and fantastic option you should also look at Campagnolo Bora One's. They're lighter and just as stiff and probably just about as aero.

[cobrakai]

If you are will to take a step up in depth and go with the Jet 6+ instead of the Jet 4 black they are currently available from competitive cyclist for $1099 and sometimes it dips to $899 for the set.

[nemeseri]

If you are will to take a step up in depth and go with the Jet 6+ instead of the Jet 4 black they are currently available from competitive cyclist for $1099 and sometimes it dips to $899 for the set.

Yeah, this deal keeps popping up for me, but it's just too heavy and deep for me as an all around wheelset.

I've had Hed Stinger 5's for a few years now and it's become my go to wheel. They're not the lightest option out there but the hubs are good and the wheels have maintained stiffness over a couple of years of battering. They also have traditional spokes so no issues replacing one etc if need be. Braking is average I'd say for carbon, no special coating or anything. I generally have used swiss stop yellow pads with them. Campagnolo red pads seemed to generate a bit too much friction and heat for them in my experience. Aero is definitely above average. You can often find them on ebay for reasonable.

If you want a lighter and fantastic option you should also look at Campagnolo Bora One's. They're lighter and just as stiff and probably just about as aero.

Thanks for the review. My main problem now is that I don't know why would I pick the HEDs over the Zipp 303. It's hard to justify the $400 extra. They weigh the same, aero properties are probably very close, both built with standard spokes, and the zipps have very good braking surface. Maybe because the famous unreliable hubs? Durability?

My problem with campagnolo wheels is that somehow I find it weird to put them on bikes with different drivetrain. Maybe I will look into fulcrum and mavic a little bit more to see what they have to offer.

[RyanH]

The aero differences between the various wheels are going to be relatively small. I'd look at the Bontrager Aeolus 5's as they are lighter than the other options and supposedly brake well and handle cross winds well. From my limited experience with 60mm wheels, they are a lot more of a handful in cross winds than 40 to 50mm rims. Competitive cyclist had an awesome deal on the Reynolds aero 46 for like 1200 I think, but that passed.

Fwiw, I have the Zipp 404s and the ride quality is surprisingly and noticeably smooth. Braking has a very good feel. I don't think it necessarily stops faster than my Reynolds 32s or RZRs but it feels better. But, as I mentioned before, their mannerism in cross winds at 40+ mph speeds is discomforting. I wouldn't want to do a road race on them (they're also porky at 1500g).

[ultyguy]

I'm not sure Fulcrum went wide 21-24mm like the Boras. Funny you're finding Hed's expensive, I've always found them much cheaper than Zipp and Bontrager 5 (same rim, dt swiss hub).


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[nemeseri]

The aero differences between the various wheels are going to be relatively small. I'd look at the Bontrager Aeolus 5's as they are lighter than the other options and supposedly brake well and handle cross winds well. From my limited experience with 60mm wheels, they are a lot more of a handful in cross winds than 40 to 50mm rims. Competitive cyclist had an awesome deal on the Reynolds aero 46 for like 1200 I think, but that passed.

Fwiw, I have the Zipp 404s and the ride quality is surprisingly and noticeably smooth. Braking has a very good feel. I don't think it necessarily stops faster than my Reynolds 32s or RZRs but it feels better. But, as I mentioned before, their mannerism in cross winds at 40+ mph speeds is discomforting. I wouldn't want to do a road race on them (they're also porky at 1500g).

Thanks for pointing out the Bontrager set. Now looking into that and seems to be a really nice alternative. Interestingly reynolds removed the Aero 46 rim brake version wheelset from their 2017 lineup. Knowing that they failed the tour magazine brake test I feel a little bit uneasy about them.

I'm not sure Fulcrum went wide 21-24mm like the Boras. Funny you're finding Hed's expensive, I've always found them much cheaper than Zipp and Bontrager 5 (same rim, dt swiss hub).

Zipp reduced the list price of the 303 firecrest tubulars to $2,000. That's already cheaper than the HED Stinger, but Zipps are also available from UK online retailers for around $1,700. That's a good price for a high end wheelset even if I'm not a fan of the brand.

[RyanH]

Yeah, the Bontragers are on my purchase list. The 5s are supposed to come close to matching the 404s in aero at almost 250g less weight.

http://www.aeroweenie.com/assets/backup ... lTest2.pdf

[Svetty]

.....Campagnolo red pads seemed to generate a bit too much friction and heat for them in my experience.

Friction is what slows the wheel - not sure you can have too much. Predictability is important - perhaps this is the issue for you?

[coachboyd]

I'm on the market to buy an all around wheelset and I keep debating between options.

I wasn't sure that carbon wheels are for me, so I bought a used tubular reynolds assault wheelset 2 months ago. I was really surprised by the stiffness, braking and overall performance of these wheels. Especially for the price I paid for them ($600). On the other hand I'm not that sure that there are any benefits of getting a new set of wheels compared to the reynolds.

I'd appreciate any first hand experiences with the wheelsets below. Also about whether there is anything to gain.

My options:


4) Boyd 44mm tubular - Cheaper than the others, but I have no info about braking and I have doubts about how aero is compared to the others in my list.

I can tell you that with the newest versions of the rims the braking is really good as we do a slight texture on the brake track. The pro guys we were sponsoring this year preferred to use the carbon wheels in rainy crits compared to the alloy ones.

Aerodynamics is going to be similar between your choices. In the wind tunnel testing we did beat out the Zipp 303, and were dead even with the Bontrager 50mm (even though the rim is 6mm deeper). We have done quite a bit of work with cfd design and making prototypes to test in the wind tunnel before a mold is ever cut.

I don't want to come in here and try to sell the wheels to you on the forums. . .but I do want to clear up some points, just so you can make a great comparison.
Thanks!

[nemeseri]

4) Boyd 44mm tubular - Cheaper than the others, but I have no info about braking and I have doubts about how aero is compared to the others in my list.

I can tell you that with the newest versions of the rims the braking is really good as we do a slight texture on the brake track. The pro guys we were sponsoring this year preferred to use the carbon wheels in rainy crits compared to the alloy ones.

Aerodynamics is going to be similar between your choices. In the wind tunnel testing we did beat out the Zipp 303, and were dead even with the Bontrager 50mm (even though the rim is 6mm deeper). We have done quite a bit of work with cfd design and making prototypes to test in the wind tunnel before a mold is ever cut.

I don't want to come in here and try to sell the wheels to you on the forums. . .but I do want to clear up some points, just so you can make a great comparison.
Thanks!

Wow. Thank you for the info and it's great to see that you do extensive testing in the tunnel. May I ask what kind of tires you achieved the results you mentioned and what you recommend for the 44mm wheelset (width and brand)?

[ultyguy]

.....Campagnolo red pads seemed to generate a bit too much friction and heat for them in my experience.

Friction is what slows the wheel - not sure you can have too much. Predictability is important - perhaps this is the issue for you?

Evern rim has an optimal amount of 'hardness' should I say of the pad. The Campagnolo red pads while amazing are definitely harder than Swiss Stop yellow.

[nonamed]

Anyone knows any discounts for Bontrager Aeolus 5 tubulars in UK / DE ?

[coachboyd]

4) Boyd 44mm tubular - Cheaper than the others, but I have no info about braking and I have doubts about how aero is compared to the others in my list.

I can tell you that with the newest versions of the rims the braking is really good as we do a slight texture on the brake track. The pro guys we were sponsoring this year preferred to use the carbon wheels in rainy crits compared to the alloy ones.

Aerodynamics is going to be similar between your choices. In the wind tunnel testing we did beat out the Zipp 303, and were dead even with the Bontrager 50mm (even though the rim is 6mm deeper). We have done quite a bit of work with cfd design and making prototypes to test in the wind tunnel before a mold is ever cut.

I don't want to come in here and try to sell the wheels to you on the forums. . .but I do want to clear up some points, just so you can make a great comparison.
Thanks!

Wow. Thank you for the info and it's great to see that you do extensive testing in the tunnel. May I ask what kind of tires you achieved the results you mentioned and what you recommend for the 44mm wheelset (width and brand)?

We tested with the Continental GP4000s in both 23mm and 25mm.Personally, I feel like 25mm (or even 28mm have an advantage). Tire preference is really a personal preference. On my tubulars I am running the Michelin Pro 4 tubulars in 25mm. But the team we work with is running the Conti Sprinters in a 25mm as they want a more durable tire for some of the rough crits.

[thumper88]

The boyds would be a fine pick, with or without the cost difference. ZIpp has improved their hubs but there is still a Zipp premium... even at $1700 thats real money.
Have had three sets of zipps and four of Reynolds in various sizes over the years... the zips have generally felt faster, but the hubs, at least till NSW, felt softer.
The carbon bit on the Zipps are really, really well designed though for both aero and road irregularities... you can feel the differnce when you take a pothole hit.
The Reynolds meanwhile have all seemed to have great hubs, not just the DTswiss Reynolds, but also one set of their hubs I had in some assaults... lasted damned near forever and the carbon was really, really sturdy, if not the most up to the second aero shape.