bellebikes wrote:Shimano tried that a long time ago with spokes that hooked into the side of the rim to really maximize this effect. It didn't work. No increase in lateral stiffness. But it served the marketing needs of having something "different" until reality interfered (they sucked).
What shimano did there was also lengthen the spokes, which decreases lateral stiffness, apart from that i can think about some other design flaws of the wheel on the picture but that would be offtopic. So i can imagine in this situation it did not work.
By judging that this wheel is not stiff and therefore a bigger spoke angle caused by offset spokes is not working would be a little too easy.
With our wheels, just drilled 2mm offset criss-cross it is not extremely obvious, We use techniques to make the wheel better, if it offer marketing benefit that is a nice addition.
Also drilling offset takes more time in the machine and is more expensive for us, so it wouldn't be very smart to do it if it didn't get us results.
bellebikes wrote: I'm thinking it must be the angle to the rim section's centroid that matters. Or something.
There is a direct correlation between spoke angle and lateral stiffness, not the only factor involved tough.
Should be a good rim if it holds up. Similar to Flo 30 but lighter. I'm skeptical of light rims though. Velocity and Pacenti have had problems recently, and don't forget the Stan's 340! You are using a special alloy which might help.
I am aware with those problems, We had a serie of wheels with lightweight rims (does not seem correct for me to name the brand) which all had cracks parallel to the spoke holes. we had to replace the whole serie.
As you mentioned the alloy we use is much less prone to cracking. but also the wall thickness at the nipple bed is 2,15mm thick while some other brands go down to 1,8mm, Also the nipple bed is wider, So the forces will divide more evenly and over a larger section of the rim wall. Also computer software nowadays can simulate the spoke forces, which helped us finding the weak spots, which led to a more efficient design and decreasing the stress on certain sections of the rim.
bellebikes wrote:EDIT: Just took a look at your kickstarter page, and have a comment about your "equal tension technology". It's really just triplet lacing (inferior triplet IMO). This isn't new, and there are pros and cons. Typically hubs that are designed for triplet have extra NDS flange offset compared to traditional wheels. You end up with ~75% of the DS tension on the NDS, but you get a lot of lateral stiffness. What you've done is use more traditional hub spacing and big heavy spokes on the NDS to get back some lateral stiffness. You end up with the same tension on both sides, but the NDS spokes will still go slack first when you subject the wheel to vertical loads. Since the spokes are heavier, they have less stretch and will go slack way before the DS. It isn't optimal from a strength and weight standpoint. You would have been better off with normal triplet, with more flange offset and lighter NDS spokes.
Yes it is a triplet lacing pattern, where we use stiffer spokes at the drive side. But we also combine the 2mm offset drilling. which also helps to more equal spoke tension. you get an improved spoke angle at both sides, This also improves a more equal spoke tension while making it higher. a 2mm improvement at the drive side is in percentage more compared to the non drive side angle.
Our hubs are designed specifically for this lacing pattern, We used computer simulations in 3d software, test setups and real life experience to come to this result.
We did not experience the drive side spokes going slack on our wheels, Not when riding down a stair, not on the slow-motion video material on the paris-roubaix cobbles. We know this can be a problem on traditional laced wheels with a too low NDS tension. With tensions around 100KG NDS and around 110KG Drive side, spokes going slack at a vertical load was simply not an issue.
When it comes to weight, Yes it is about 16 gram's extra in the rear wheel. Something to overcome and well worth it. as it does provide extra stiffness to the wheel.
The equal tension technology (ET2) is how we call all the factors combined. So the 2:1 lacing, using different thickness spokes and the 2mm offset drilling. Also note that the thicker spokes are much less prone to damaging.
But we know many wheel-builders do prefer to use traditional lacing patterns or for example, external nipples. This setup works very well for us and has been proven on our carbon wheels, and proves very reliable when it comes to spoke failure, And the handling is very appreciated by our clients and test riders.
But we also sell seperate rims for almost any lacing pattern thinkable. We know a 24/28 spoke setup with traditional lacing can also make a very good wheel, and we see the value in wheel-builders builds for a specific rider.