Reflections on Veloflex Arenberg and Tufo Elite Pulse Tubulars

[SgtRock]

I recently brought a set of Reynolds Assault SLG tubular wheels and decided to fit them out with 25mm Veloflex Arenberg tubs. In recent years I have used Tufo S3 Elite tubs in 21mm and 23mm widths. I really liked the 23mm S3 but wanted to match a 25mm tub with my new 25mm wide rims. So I looked around for something new including Tufo's Elite Ride 25s, however after reading lots of good feedback regarding their ride feel and puncture resistance I opted to try something different and chose Veloflex Arenbergs.

I fitted the Arenbergs using Effetto Mariposa Carogna Tubular Tape, which went on well enough. I let the tubs fix for a couple of days and went out for a ride. The new tub and wheel combination certainly felt quick enough but I was a little surprised early doors on a climb to get bit of rear wheel breakaway when out of the saddle. After topping out on one of the bigger climbs on my route I turned back down hill. The descent falls away quite sharply and curves to the left with a bit of off camber slope. I know the descent well enough and started pulling on the breaks to control my speed and tyre grip was just not there. The rear was offering no grip and just kept locking up (and I was not pulling the anchors on - well not initially).

Bottom line is I couldn't make the turn a had to run wide, well wide, and ended up in a grass bank on the opposite side of the road. Nothing damaged but I was a bit shook up, not by the fact that I had had an off but rather the fact that I seemed to have so little control with the new set up.

After a couple more rides with the Arenbergs I was still not getting good feedback from the tyres so I decided to change. I looked at going back to Tufo's with which I had never had grip issues. The S3 23mm which I had been riding were comfortable (the 375 tpi version). I opted for the Elite Pulse 25mm tubs, also 375 tpi, which are actually suggested for triathlon but as far as I can see they are basically a slightly wider version of the S3.

I mounted them with Tufo Extreme tape and went riding. What a difference! Straight out on the road they felt just as comfortable as the Arenbergs but grip and feed back was much better - no nerves from me at all. I used similar pressures in both set ups from 90 to 95psi front and around 100psi on the rear.

I terms of speed they feel just as fast as the Arenbergs maybe a tad quicker (the Tufos weighed in at 248g each rather than their listed 280g. The Veloflexs were 282g each. Using the Tufo tap also saved 20g per wheel).

Whether it was just the tub or the combination of tub with the Effeto glue tape I can't say but I am very glad I switched to the Tufos. So I have a clean and virtually unmarked pair of Veloflex going on ebay. Others may love 'em but not for me.

[robrud]

Are you paid for posting this?

[SgtRock]

No. Would be nice if I was!

[kgt]

lol
Really... even comparing Tufos to Veloflex sounds like a blasphemy. Veloflex are not for you obviously, and that's fine, but that's all.

[SgtRock]

Hmm .. Thought I might get accused of heresy but it is an honest account. I had high hopes for the Arenbergs but the grip issue was unnerving. Definitely slowed me down when descending and unpredictable rear breakaway didn't help with confidence. What was interesting, at least to me, was doing back to back rides on both and experiencing clear differences. I am now back to being fully confident in grip and feedback, and ride and speed are both, at least as far as I can judge, just as good.

But .. I know I am still be a blasphemer.

[audiojan]

A bit surprised.. my experience with Arenberg's is pretty much the exact opposite, great grip in all weather and road conditions. The difference is that I use Continental Carbon Cement, not tape (although I'd be surprised if that would account for such a 180deg difference...).

[TwiggyTN]

I have ridden both tires, the Veloflex are certainly more supple but the Pulses in 25mm width are actually pretty good, but the haters gonna hate because well, Tufo. As far as grip, didn't the great Team Sky blame all the crashing last year on Veloflex and ditch their tires for Continental? Others swear by them, including me so who knows,

Sent from my GT-P5113 using Tapatalk

[Denavelo]

I've never had grip issues with Arenbergs, but I also don't run tufo tape. Tubular tires were meant to be glued no taped to the rim.
Gluing gives the tire a more secure feel, and mental confidence.
Tufo tires are rubbish. I've yet to ride one that I felt was better than a Conti Gatorskin I used to ride in my track bike days.
I can't even count the miles I put on my aged Arenbergs. So far, the best tubular tire I've ridden in terms of feel, grip and durability.
Now if FMB tires could last longer than 30 rides, I'd ride those pillows over anything.
With Veloflex, you have to find the sweet spot of PSI versus your weight. When you find it, you won't find a better tire. Well the new Gorsa G Tubulars are pretty amazing I hear.

[SgtRock]

Hi Denavelo

Can't reply to your PM as I don't seem to have made enough posts to use this feature.

Any suggestions?

[964Cup]

How can tape vs glue affect grip? Nonsense. I think Tufo are the only brand I've not ridden, but FWIW:

Schwalbe Ultremo HT - light, good dry grip, a bit suspect in the wet
Schwalbe One 25c - heavy, decent all-round grip, made of cheese - worked well for a while then punctured relentlessly (despite having no signs of wear)
Mavic Yksion Power/Griplink v1 - also made of cheese, unimpressive grip & feel. Crap tyre, in my view.
Mavic CXR Yksion Power/Griplink CX01 blah blah - slow (poor CRR) so need a lot of pressure, grip is a bit suspect, especially the rear. Hold pressure forever.
Vittoria Pave 24c (coloured centre tread) - a bit heavy, but grip forever and super tough; far and away my favourite winter tyre - one of the few I've worn out rather than binned from repeated punctures or boredom.
Vittoria Pave 25c (black) - not so good - punctured and felt slower. Grip still peerless.
Specialized Turbo 23c - how much? Came with some wheels. One punctured irreparably early on (which is dull in a £90 tyre), the other is still going well. Grip very suspect in wet/greasy conditions.
Vittoria Corsa Evo CX I/II/III (21c, 23c) - my go-to for summer tyres until recently. Puncture resistance sub-standard. Grip unimpeachable.
Challenge Strada 25c - gumwall looks, much the same as Paves in grip but better ride quality. Puncture resistance seems OK.
Continental Competition 22c - hold pressure, roll well, grip well in the dry, hard ride. Can't comment on wet grip as yet to experience it.
Veloflex Record 23c - climbing tyres (<190g!) - fabulous ride, excellent dry grip even in fast cornering, no punctures so far (fingers crossed). Again no idea as to wet grip (not planning to find out, either).

I have some Conti Sprinter Gatorskins on the shelf if my Corsa Evos keep puncturing; I'm expecting to trade grip and ride comfort for bomb-proof puncture resistance.

[Denavelo]

I don't think tape versus gluing affects grip, but it does affect the pull on the tire in turns, etc..

I'm speaking from personal experience.. Maybe tape has gotten better over the years, but when I used Tufo Tape I would feel my tires move while leaning. I'm not taking turns MotoGP style, but I'm known to descend pretty aggressively. I've felt my tire roll to the side a bit when using tape. When my tires were glued, I never felt that sensation.

Taping is just lazy... Gluing takes no time and it quite easy. we've all played with gluing and coloring in our youths, so don't be afraid to glue your tires. the key is light coats.

[timoh]

I also switched from Tufo to Veloflex Arenberg quite recently and noticed the same thing. Veloflex locks up much easier than Tufos when breaking.

[Belisarius]

After a couple more rides with the Arenbergs I was still not getting good feedback from the tyres so I decided to change. I looked at going back to Tufo's with which I had never had grip issues. The S3 23mm which I had been riding were comfortable (the 375 tpi version). I opted for the Elite Pulse 25mm tubs, also 375 tpi, which are actually suggested for triathlon but as far as I can see they are basically a slightly wider version of the S3. I mounted them with Tufo Extreme tape and went riding. What a difference! Straight out on the road they felt just as comfortable as the Arenbergs but grip and feed back was much better - no nerves from me at all. I used similar pressures in both set ups from 90 to 95psi front and around 100psi on the rear.

I terms of speed they feel just as fast as the Arenbergs maybe a tad quicker (the Tufos weighed in at 248g each rather than their listed 280g. The Veloflexs were 282g each. Using the Tufo tap also saved 20g per wheel). Whether it was just the tub or the combination of tub with the Effeto glue tape I can't say but I am very glad I switched to the Tufos. So I have a clean and virtually unmarked pair of Veloflex going on ebay. Others may love 'em but not for me.

Normally one should not respond, but this one is worth the effort. First, the post is comparing apples and oranges. A 25 mm (rides like 26) Veloflex for elite cobbled/pave racing tire with THE FASTEST 23mm Tufo. If anything, the comparison makes Tufo look badly. It is like comparing Toyo UQTG 540 AA all seasons with Michelin Gt grade slick 220 AA summers. This aside, the esteemed member still had doubts! Let's make it simple: Veloflex is the company's 2nd SLOWEST Elite performance (Slowest being 27mm Vlaanderen).

Also use the new mariposa tape, it is amazing. Went from 48 hrs glue process to 5 min application and next day riding. The Mariposa tape is indeed the revolution it claims to be. Had a few iffy Vittoria and Conti Carbon glue applications which removed too easily, a failed Pastali (never actually glued and nearly rolled out the rear). All these compelled me to try Maripossa. The Mariposa tape provides all around adhesion between the tubular and the tape, and outstanding adherence between the tape and the rim; perfectly clean removal (in the longitudinal plane only, rolling it upwards once done, which Tufo cannot do). Handles water and heat better than all the other glues which softened and faded on hot days.

Arenbergs are incredibly comfortable, in a stone-ridden region called Saguenay use them as REAR only, and survive a punishing that no other performance tire can handle. A 0.5mm puncture took 1000kms to start leaking. Repaired it easily (opening the tubular). As is, can push 35-45km/hr on flats without problems, and easily descend 60-70 km hr (as fast as my gradients permit). Yet it stays comfortable at 108-115psi (total rider weight 195incl kit), and delivers 3000 + kms per rear.

Arenbergs are slower than Carbon/Sprinter and even more than Veloflex Extreme (the S3 equivalent) , perceptibly so on perfect smooth hot roads. They are as fast, maybe even faster, on cool, grimy road surfaces, the tire attributes delivering in these conditions where stability and contact are key. In nice conditions, Montreal or Ottawa, use Carbons without problems, won a GranFondo on Vx carbons, and are impeccable. Any bad region, Arenberg's 320 TPI construct deliver flawless performance, stability and control. Not top speed, but we do not mount Arenbergs for top speed, right? Nor do pros on Paris-Roubaix. Gutting them for repairs, Arenbergs are very smooth inside but also the casing and rubber are VERY THICK, even if soft. Softer than any Conti, Michelin or Tufo I saw opened.

I stay away from Tufo as they do not last in my region- people riding them fille them with Stan's and thus change their characteristics. Poor low mileage and puncture very easily over tiny sharp rocks. Keep in mind, Vx Arenbergs and Carbon rarely, if ever (only had x1 such flat, repairable, in 30,000 kms).

Also avoid Challenge and FMB- they do not last. They are not cured and meant on perfect pro, pre-race swept roads. FMB's do not last 10 rides in my training areas, even pristine ones.

On my secondary bike I run Continental Force Comp 24 mm rear (22 OR 23 mm Contis in front), and the top race conti is an unstable, rigid tubular. it becomes manageable around 105 PSI. 120 or above is just jumps or skids, and does not round well under fast cornering.

Had the author compared the Tufos with Carbon or Extreme, then maybe the comparison would have made sense. But comparing the much heavier, poor weather/poor road elite Arenberg performance tire (and what a poor performer at pro level speeds!!), versus the Tufo fast speed/TT, is not a valid comparison. Gut them once they are done and feel the difference, and one can understand.

[Belisarius]

After a couple more rides with the Arenbergs I was still not getting good feedback from the tyres so I decided to change. I looked at going back to Tufo's with which I had never had grip issues. The S3 23mm which I had been riding were comfortable (the 375 tpi version). I opted for the Elite Pulse 25mm tubs, also 375 tpi, which are actually suggested for triathlon but as far as I can see they are basically a slightly wider version of the S3. I mounted them with Tufo Extreme tape and went riding. What a difference! Straight out on the road they felt just as comfortable as the Arenbergs but grip and feed back was much better - no nerves from me at all. I used similar pressures in both set ups from 90 to 95psi front and around 100psi on the rear.

I terms of speed they feel just as fast as the Arenbergs maybe a tad quicker (the Tufos weighed in at 248g each rather than their listed 280g. The Veloflexs were 282g each. Using the Tufo tap also saved 20g per wheel). Whether it was just the tub or the combination of tub with the Effeto glue tape I can't say but I am very glad I switched to the Tufos. So I have a clean and virtually unmarked pair of Veloflex going on ebay. Others may love 'em but not for me.

Normally one should not respond, but this one is worth the effort. First, the post is comparing apples and oranges. A 25 mm (rides like 26) Veloflex for elite cobbled/pave racing tire with THE FASTEST 23mm Tufo. If anything, the comparison makes Tufo look badly. It is like comparing Toyo UQTG 540 AA all seasons with Michelin Gt grade slick 220 AA summers. This aside, the esteemed member still had doubts! Let's make it simple: Veloflex is the company's 2nd SLOWEST Elite performance (Slowest being 27mm Vlaanderen).

Also use the new mariposa tape, it is amazing, either front or rear. in the past years, Conti, Vittoria Mastik etc I pulled the tubular so easily I got scared of how poorely they glued and settled. Mariposa? Rock solid on Zipp Firecrests.

Arenbergs are incredibly comfortable; in a stone-ridden region called Saguenay use them as REAR only, and survive a punishing that no other performance tire can handle. A 0.5mm puncture took 1000kms to start leaking. Th eouter rubber had a 7 mm cut, barely noticeable, the inner casing a black 0.5mm hole, and took me a long time to locate the sub 0.5mm hole in the latex. Repaired it easily (opening the tubular). As is, can push 35-45km/hr on flats without problems, and easily descend 60-70 km hr (as fast as my gradients permit). Yet it stays comfortable at 108-115psi (total rider weight 195incl kit), and delivers 3000 + kms per rear.

Arenbergs are slower than Carbon/Sprinter and even more than Veloflex Extreme (the S3 equivalent) , perceptibly so on perfect smooth hot roads. Arenbergs, however, are as fast, maybe even faster, on cool, moist, grimy and imperfect road surfaces, the tire attributes delivering in these conditions where stability and contact are key- over road deformations, over tiny rocks, through cracks etc. The faster, 23 mm types bounce the bike up. In nice conditions, Montreal or Ottawa, use Carbons without problems, won a GranFondo on Vx carbons, and are impeccable. Any bad region, Arenberg's 320 TPI construct deliver flawless performance, stability and control. Not top speed, but we do not mount Arenbergs for top speed, right? Nor do Cx or rally cars use the same rubber as F1 track, and F1 Pirelli has several compounds for races. Nor do pros mount Arenbergs for speed during Paris-Roubaix. Gutting them for repairs, Arenbergs are very smooth inside but also the casing and rubber are VERY THICK, even if soft. Softer than any Conti, Michelin or Tufo I saw opened.

I stay away from Tufo as they do not last in my region- people riding them fille them with Stan's and thus change their characteristics. Poor low mileage and puncture very easily over tiny sharp rocks. In over 30,000kms of high performance cycling, experienced only that one latent flat amongst all Vx Arenbergs and Carbons I rode. And the flat is in that tiny rock infested Saguenay region.

Also avoid Challenge and FMB- they do not last. They are not cured and meant on perfect TDF / Gyro type, pre-race-swept roads. FMB's do not last 6 rides in my training areas, even nicer Ottawa streets. One chip guts them.

On my secondary bike I run Continental Force Comp 24 mm rear (22 OR 23 mm Contis in front), and the top race conti is an unstable, rigid tubular. it becomes manageable around 105 PSI. 120 or above is just jumps or skids, and does not round well under fast cornering.

Had the author compared the Tufos with Carbon or Extreme, then maybe the comparison would have made sense. But comparing the much heavier, poor weather/poor road, nonetheless elite Arenberg performance tire (and what a poor performer at pro level speeds!!), versus the Tufo fast speed/TT, is not a valid comparison. Gut them once they are done and feel the difference, and one can understand.

Arenbergs are so good they are very hard to find these days (gone from most popular sites) and from 12+ months stamped date, lately received 2016 stamped Veloflexes (means high demand). If possible, I age them 6-18 months if past the manufacturing date stamped on them.

[gurk700]

I bought a used Enve 4.5 set with Arenbergs mounted. They were pretty worn out so I didn't expect them to feel great.

You should've seen the grin on my face when I leaned into a 9% downhill corner. They were amazing even towards the end of their lifespan.

To each his own I suppose.

edit: Also used Carbons. Holy hell. By the time I had no thread left, I checked the tire to see if there's any cuts. There's a cut every 2cm's around the diameter of that thing and still didn't have a flat. The grip has been amazing too.