Stiffest 50mm-60mm carbon clinchers? Bora? Zipp 404? Mavic? Enve?

[RedRacer]

I posted in another thread that my carbon clinchers are rubbing on the brake pads during hard out of the saddle efforts so I am shopping for new wheels.

I want them to be suitable for all around use and for my body weight and size the 50mm to 60mm depth works well. Good aero is important to me but not at the expense of lateral stiffness. Lightweights aren't on my list because they aren't reported to have excellent aerodynamics properties, the price is high and I don't like the idea of sending them away for service if something happens. Sub-1600g would be ideal.

Feedback is welcome on what you think are the stiffest carbon clinchers out there! I love the Bora 50s and they seem to be quite stiff but probably not the most aero. The low rear spoke count has me doubting that they are the stiffest available. Are Zipp 404 NSWs stiff? They have lots of tech/hype and the 58mm shape must surely be aero but what about stiffness? I didn't care for my Enve 3.4/King set but maybe the 4.5s or 6.7s are a lot stiffer? Mavic tends to build stiff wheels so maybe their latest offering is worth considering? Are Shimano DA 50s old and crusty? A custom build is another option but I can't find a rear hub with good weight and spacing that isn't fragile or obscenely loud (i.e. Extralite and Tune).

Maybe I am hoping for a miracle that just won't happen

[2lo8]

Doesn't directly answer your question, but have you read this?

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Debunkin ... _3449.html

[pdlpsher1]

Campy and Shimano wheels are a cut above the rest in terms of lateral stiffness due to their unique spoking patterns. They use seven spokes on the NDS and 14 on the DS. Because on the DS the spoke angle is small you want more spokes on the DS as more spokes increases lateral stiffness. The seven spokes on the NDS are sufficient because they are able to increase the flange spacing on the NDS to compensate for the low spoke count. What you end up is a wheel with high lateral stiffness. I think I read somewhere that 13 World Tour teams ride Shimano wheels. That speaks volume on the durability and functionality of their wheels.

Before you make a decision wait until June 29th to see if new wheels are part of the Dura Ace new product offering.

[Bluechip]

I would think that any 50-60 mm carbon rims would be plenty stiff for any purpose. My Farsports rims were incredibly stiff even before being built up. If you want super stiff use more spokes.

[davidalone]

Campy and Shimano wheels are a cut above the rest in terms of lateral stiffness due to their unique spoking patterns. They use seven spokes on the NDS and 14 on the DS. Because on the DS the spoke angle is small you want more spokes on the DS as more spokes increases lateral stiffness. The seven spokes on the NDS are sufficient because they are able to increase the flange spacing on the NDS to compensate for the low spoke count. What you end up is a wheel with high lateral stiffness. I think I read somewhere that 13 World Tour teams ride Shimano wheels. That speaks volume on the durability and functionality of their wheels.

Before you make a decision wait until June 29th to see if new wheels are part of the Dura Ace new product offering.

While Shimano Wheels are alright, using the 'what pros ride' argument is a poor barometer of equipment performance.the fact that 13 Worldtour teams ride their wheels means NOTHING to us. Pro teams ride what they are paid to ride. Teams get a preferential package when they agree to ride the full suite of equipmen form one sponsor. Shimano gives better terms if you ride their groupsets, wheels AND components. they won't let you ride their groupset ONLY. same with Zipp and Campag. For other teams with their own wheel sponsor hey get paid more than shimano or campag or sram will pay them, so they buy their own parts.

Team Sky- sponsored by Shimano. Ride PRO stems and shimano wheels.
FDJ: sponsored by shimano. ride PRO stems and shimano wheels
Team BMC- sponsored by Shimano. Ride shimano wheels. 3T components
Lotto NL- SPonsored by SHimano. Ride SHimano wheels. FSA components.
Lotto Soudal- Sponsored by campag. ride campag wheels.
Katusha: sponsored by sram. ride zipp. bike sponsor provides components (canyon)
Ag2R: sponsored by sram. ride zipp wheels and components.
Orica: sponsored by shimano. ride PRO stems and shimano wheels.

The rest?
Etixx: BUY their own shimano groups. ride Roval wheels. sponsored by FSA for their upcoming group.
Astana: Buy their own campag groups. ride corima wheels.
Cannondale: Buy own shimano groups. ride mavic wheels.
tinkoff: buy own shimano groups. ride roval wheels. sponsored by FSA for their upcoming group.
dimension data: sponsored by rotor. ride enve wheels
IAM: buy own shimano groups. ride DT swiss wheels.

So saying shimano wheels are good because proteams ride them, is frankly, BS.
FYI, my sponsor shop hosted some orica riders 2 years ago. I won't say who, but they outrightly say they did not like shimano wheels.

[pdlpsher1]

So saying shimano wheels are good because proteams ride them, is frankly, BS.

The OP asked a question "which wheel is the stiffest deep carbon clincher". My opinion is that Shimano wheels will meet his requirement in durability and functionality. And I gave a technical reason on why they are stiff. Regardless whether you like them or not I stand by my opinion that they are both durable and functional, and will meet the needs of the OP. And yes I do believe if the product is good enough for World Tour teams it's good enough for us.

Do you have any personal experiences with them to suggest Shimano wheels are not functional nor durable? Do you have something against Shimano? I own a set of Shimano wheels and I can say they are bullet proof.

[Spindoctor]

stiffest carbon clinchers - got to be Milensteins they have a metal hoop in them

[F45]

FYI, my sponsor shop hosted some orica riders 2 years ago. I won't say who, but they outrightly say they did not like shimano wheels.

Why didn't they like Shimano wheels? No secret squirrel stuff; give us some straight talk.

[RedRacer]

stiffest carbon clinchers - got to be Milensteins they have a metal hoop in them

I believe you and they do have a great reputation for stiffness but I am not convinced they are very aero and I don't like the idea of having to send them away for repairs. They are also a wee bit costly but I could overlook that if they excelled in all areas.

[kgt]

LWs and Mavic CCU are the stiffest wheels by far. Corima MCC come close. Everything else is considerably less stiff.

But since you prefer a 'normal' wheelset Campagnolo Bora would be my first choise. Corima 47 mm s+ my second choise.

[RedRacer]

Before you make a decision wait until June 29th to see if new wheels are part of the Dura Ace new product offering.

Good advice! I can sit on the fence for another three days

LWs and Mavic CCU are the stiffest wheels by far. Corima MCC come close. Everything else is considerably less stiff.

But since you prefer a 'normal' wheelset Campagnolo Bora would be my first choise. Corima 47 mm s+ my second choise.

Thanks for the feedback. I would prefer to buy a wheelset with steel spokes and the CCUs are out because I want clinchers.

I know the new Bora 50s are stiff but with the low rear spoke count it is hard to wrap my head around them being the stiffest option. The do seem to have good rear hub geometry/spacing which would help.

The ZIPP 404 NSW is still on my radar. The 58mm depth must be stiff and this new model has two more rear spokes vs the old ones, plus improved hubs. The rear lacing is two cross which should be stiffer than the wheels that are radially laced on the NDS, right?

[davidalone]

So saying shimano wheels are good because proteams ride them, is frankly, BS.

The OP asked a question "which wheel is the stiffest deep carbon clincher". My opinion is that Shimano wheels will meet his requirement in durability and functionality. And I gave a technical reason on why they are stiff. Regardless whether you like them or not I stand by my opinion that they are both durable and functional, and will meet the needs of the OP. And yes I do believe if the product is good enough for World Tour teams it's good enough for us.

Do you have any personal experiences with them to suggest Shimano wheels are not functional nor durable? Do you have something against Shimano? I own a set of Shimano wheels and I can say they are bullet proof.

[Marin]

How much do you weigh?

55+ mm deep carbon rims of any reputable brand are going to be extremely stiff and you won't significantly deform the rim no matter how hard you push - the rim will keep its shape, but move around in relation to the hub axle as much as the spokes let it.

This means stiffness is mostly determined by hub geometry as well as spoke pattern, number and thickness.

So you are looking for good bracing angles and lots of thick spokes.

[davidalone]

So saying shimano wheels are good because proteams ride them, is frankly, BS.

The OP asked a question "which wheel is the stiffest deep carbon clincher". My opinion is that Shimano wheels will meet his requirement in durability and functionality. And I gave a technical reason on why they are stiff. Regardless whether you like them or not I stand by my opinion that they are both durable and functional, and will meet the needs of the OP. And yes I do believe if the product is good enough for World Tour teams it's good enough for us.

Do you have any personal experiences with them to suggest Shimano wheels are not functional nor durable? Do you have something against Shimano? I own a set of Shimano wheels and I can say they are bullet proof.

If you read the FIRST FREAKING SENTENCE of my post you will notice I said Campy or Shimano wheels are good wheels and many people will ride them without complaint. I myself love campy wheels. I have used shimano wheels and they are generally good. not perfect, but good. My beef with shimano wheels (especially the C24 shallow rim ones) is they tend to use too few spokes and end up with unecessarily high spoke tensions. Not a deal breaker, and certainly they aren't the only wheel makers guilty of this. but something to bear in mind.

2:1 lacing has it's strengths and weaknesses. if you snap a spoke on a 2:1 laced wheel the tension differential is so high that you are most definitely not riding home. snap a spoke on a normal 2X or 3X laced wheel and it's still rideable, good enough to get you home. There is no perfect system.

MY point is that using Pro equipment as a point of reference is not relevant to the normal folk like you or me or the OP. If not, we'd all be riding tubulars and in extremely aggressive positions with bikes heavier than 6.8kg. Educating people about intelligent equipment choices is one of the points of this forum, and basing equipment choices on what the pros ride is not the smartest idea.

Get your panties out of a twist.

[kgt]

In case you can read french:

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-53430565.html

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-53430610.html

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-53430669.html