25mm Tubeless Tyres

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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

We both got the tubeless levers from IRC at Sea Otter. I used them when I mounted the tires, not sure if dvq did. Those levers are actually nothing special and I think the narrow tubeless side is more likely to damage the bead.

Also your mechanic has tough hands. There’s no way I could have mounted the IRCs by hand. Pro Ones, Hutchinson, Zipp, Mavic I can all mount by hand without much trouble.

Beads shouldn’t be damageable by levers anyway. This has never happened to me with any other tire, and it’s happened to two people using IRCs in the span of a week.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I have mounted I dont now how many of the irtc tyres now. never managed to damage a bead. only had one back but it inflated when I tried so the bead was not damaged. The customer had somehow managed to mis use the levers and damaged the lining of the tyre causing the inflation issue (again he is the only one). The irc lever are the only one that last. i uses these day in day out. everything else breaks or wear out quickly. I dont use the pointy end i find it useless. So I can't work out how people have damaged the bead. yes the tyres are tight they are meant to be. you ride these tyres flat and they dont unseat. I have tried for over 10 miles/ the tyre reinflated and I am still using it daily no damage.

when mounting the tyres it is imperative that you gather the slack by chasing the tyre round the rim. Failing to do that properly could potentially damage the bead. there is nothing defective about the tyre. Being a retailer I find this often customers blaming the product but after discussing it with them i tend to find some sort of fitting or installtion error. Be less quick to blame a product until you know the cause. Like the one returned tyre I had to send out another but I know the customer damaged it by sticking the pointy end of the lever inside the tyre where it is never meant to be.

Any tyre that has failed though IRC want to know about it. so let them know. you can send it me and I will let Koichi know. If there is a manufacturing defect it needs to be determined what the cause is. however in mounting alot of tyres I have yet to encounter it, so details please.

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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I don't think it's a coincidence that two people who know each other, who are both honestly very familiar and proficient with tubeless, who bought different models of IRC's new file tread tires...that we both got the exact same unsealable split at the top of the bead. I have mounted Pro Ones, Zipps, Mavics, Hutchinsons, etc. These were the hardest to mount and actually required the most help to seal. The little knobs and bumps on the bead required sealant to stop air from escaping overnight. When I unmounted the tire, I had wrestle with the bead just to get it out from behind the bead lip/lock.

Both dvq and I were very enthusiastic about trying the IRCs. They had a very supple ride quality and felt fast as a result. Unfortunately the extra effort to mount the tire and get the initial airtight seal tempered my expectations a bit. And then the bead failure made me really mad as I realized it was the exact same issue dvq encountered a week earlier. We both imported these tires from Japan since they are not really available in the US outside of BTI's distributor warehouse.

In contrast the Mavic Yksion Pro USTs I just mounted went on easily by hand, and the bead snapped securely into place also. I have it inflated right now to 100psi without sealant and there is no perceivable air loss. Everything about these Mavics so far screams better design/quality control. The bead is the exact right shape and size, and the construction is ridiculously consistent. I measured the tire thickness at a dozen points and the 25mm version varies by less than .2mm.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Is this the formula pro light? These tyres are a but more vunerable to side wall damage that the other two formula pro tyres that is simply due to the lighter construction. The RBCC and X guard tyres are not dangerous and more robust. the lights are not dangerous either but if you damage them and that applies to any tyre then failure can result. I have damaged the sidewalls on many tyres over the years so are all tyres dangerous.

i dont have the same issues in getting IRC to seal as you. It can be the rim also. I find the IRC just pop into place (without the pop) and sealing without sealant is easy without air loss most of the time. you will find with the mavic on some rims the same issues as you have with the IRC's. trust me on this. it is rim tyre interface rather than the tyre here.

there are rims for example where I can mount the IRC by hand easily. Other rims I can't, for most I need a decent set of levers but it quite quick still. I worry about tyres that can be mounted by hand. I worry about the run flat potential. It is the fact that you have to wrestle the tyre of the bead that I like about the IRC's. This means if I really have a big problem on the road I can ride the tyre flat and it wont unseat (i have done this) and rim remain undamaged so did the tyre. So different priorities. i personally dont mind if the tyre cant be fitted by hand that what tools are for.

There are some rims where the tyre is so tight I would rather not fit it as getting it seal is more difficult. The PAcenti Forza has this problem. An IRC on these rims will mount but you have to be more careful chasing the tyre round to gather slack and you do need compressed air to get anywhere. Other rims dont have this issue. There have been a couple of rims where I have not even been able to get a Schwalbe one inflated and they were pretty easy to get setup normally.

#i am simply trying to offer another experience of fitting hundreds of these things and riding on them also.

gavhowe06
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by gavhowe06

Hello, I came across this thread whilst searching tubeless road tyres. I normally race on GP4000ii, and had been used 4 seasons for the winter training months. But after the purchase of some new tubeless wheels I thought I would give tubeless a go. First I tried Pro Ones, these seem to puncture often and cut up and get sliced. To a point where an inner tube was the only way to continue using them. However they do not have a puncture resistant band under the rubber, so with an inner tube they puncture even more often, so took them off.

I then researched IRC formula Pro tyres, I decided to go with the x-guard, so this seemed to be an RBCC but with a puncture resistant belt. My thinking being that I could use an inner tube if they got sliced.

They however are the slowest tyres I have ever rode, did a TT on them and was 1min slower at the same power.

So I decided to do a rolling resistance test on my rollers, at the same speed the IRC's required 30watts more than the GP4000. This is the same air pressure same everything other than the tyres.

Now I do think the rollers amplify the value due to the tyre deflecting more, but they are so much slower even on the road.

So now the question is what do I buy instead, would the IRC RBCC or X-light be any faster really, no marketing bullsh*t.

What model were "Team on Form" using in racing or "NIPPO VINI FANTINI"?

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

The IRC X guard tyre are smaller in air volume to the conti tyres so that will affect the results.

RBCC is what the teams use and is IRC's race tyre. The RBBC tyre is really a race tyre for wet conditions it has lower Crr than the X guard tyre but higher than the roadlite. On balance if you ride/race in mixed conditions then I would use the RBCC tyre. If you are doing mostly TT's then the roadlites if your rim are wide enough or the formula pro light would be a better tyre saving around 5W under the conditions I had the tyres tested on.

The roadlite actually has the lower rolling resistance but dont have the same levels of wet grip as the RBCC tyre. Also as the 25mm roadlite is a big tyre (conti GP4000sII big) it needs to be paired with a 29mm wide rim to get the best aero performance. the 23mm tyre is much smaller and looses too much air if it punctures to make it practical. The roadlite seems to roll as well as the formula pro light but is much heavier. The roadlite test like the Conti GP4000sII for a comparision and in fact from road testing I think it is similar for grip as well. The drum used appears to make a big difference to the results. the american importer had similar tests done but on a smooth steel drum and the tyres tested 1-2W faster than in the test I had done. So test results vary.

the Xguard in a rolling road test I have done rolls like a GP 4 seasons tyre. not fast but not slow. . It is not a racing tyre as such, it is more a winter training/audax/multiday tyre.

The GP4000SII on the same rollers 80 psi 40kg load would be 13.3W but this is for a 25mm tyre which is 28mm on wide rims. The X guard in comparison tests at 5.W more so not 30W.

The small drums your rollers really screw up the results (different tyres will deform differently under load on small compared to big rollers changing the results in unfavouable or favourable ways depending on the tyres being tested) but the X guard tyre is slower than the GP 4000sII tyre but it is not meant to be faster. Think of it like a tubeless conti conti 4 season ( but it seems to be a better tyre to ride on in horrid conditions. Tubeless tyres generally score well on the tests because most of them have no puncture protection and use use soft rubber compounds and thinner casing than the tyres that test slower. there is always a trade off although this can make them fine for racing in better conditions.

Of course there are other tubeless tyres but the faster ones have thinner casing and this does not bode well for there puncture resistance.

If the Formula pro x guard is the slowest tyre you have ever rode get a pair 25mm Schwalbe marathon plus tyres then you will know what a really slow tyre feels like. comparisions are all relative and no tyre with a 40 tpi puncture protection belt is going to be a TT tyre.

gavhowe06
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by gavhowe06

Thank you so much for that information that is very informative. I am a cat1 road racer and these tyres are fitted to my disc brake training bike. However from next year I will also be able to race it. So I want a fast tubeless tyre to race on that is not too fragile as will also be training on it all year in the wet and dry. As an engineer I really appreciate the data you have supplied. I realise that my 30 watts figure was amplified by the small rollers. The x-guard are a good tyre but it my competitive nature that doesn't want to give up the speed I was used too. It sounds like the RBCC maybe the tyre for me as they will be comparable to the GP4000 and the x-guard over gp4000 is 5 watts per tyre.

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IrrelevantD
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by IrrelevantD

I’m actually kinda surprised that you had so many issues with the Pro One. I’ve had fairly good luck with them. Not quite as good as the older One tubeless, but far better than my experience with the early Hutchinson attempts at 25c tubeless.

My big problem with the Pro One is wet traction. I’ve had lots of issues with loosing grip in the wet to the point that I will use different wheels if I expect rain. I personally have found that I like the Maxxis Padrone over the Pro One. It’s not quite as wide, but it has much better grip and feels just as fast. I’m also trying out the Panaracer Race A Evo 3 on my HED Jet+ wheels and they have held up fairly well as well. Don’t feel quite as fast, but better grip than the Ones.
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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

The pardoned feels just as quick as the irc roadlites but the pardoned is a smaller tyre. Not to sure about the long term reliability yet. The pro one work some some but not others. Round my end of the world almost everyone one I know who has used schwalbe pro ones has given up on them as they let us down. Sharp flint destroys tyres with soft rubber. The wet grip is something the the old ones were never good at.

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IrrelevantD
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by IrrelevantD

bm0p700f wrote:The pardoned feels just as quick as the irc roadlites but the pardoned is a smaller tyre. Not to sure about the long term reliability yet. The pro one work some some but not others. Round my end of the world almost everyone one I know who has used schwalbe pro ones has given up on them as they let us down. Sharp flint destroys tyres with soft rubber. The wet grip is something the the old ones were never good at.


Where I'm at, no issue with the One's holding up wear wise, but it gets wet here in Dallas frequently from September through May. I just dealt with it until I picked up the Padrone's last spring. I've been wanting to try the IRC's and have been looking for a good deal, just haven't found it when I needed it yet. I currently have three sets of wheels for two bikes running tubeless, so I'm sure I'll get around to them eventually.
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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

The cost of production in japan precludes deals on irc tyres. Also the pro one wears out in half the time of an irc tyre which actually makes them more expensive. A pro one on a deal is actually all its worth. An irc at the price it is is what it's worth. Over 10000 miles one tyre is definately cheaper. As i have said if you want very low rolling resistance the pro one is hard to beat but it comes at a cost of other characteristics which find desirable.

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IrrelevantD
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by IrrelevantD

bm0p700f wrote:The cost of production in japan precludes deals on irc tyres. Also the pro one wears out in half the time of an irc tyre which actually makes them more expensive. A pro one on a deal is actually all its worth. An irc at the price it is is what it's worth. Over 10000 miles one tyre is definately cheaper. As i have said if you want very low rolling resistance the pro one is hard to beat but it comes at a cost of other characteristics which find desirable.


Yea, if I could get 10k out of them, it’d definitely be worth it. If nothing else, put them on the wheels that get used 4-5 days a week and save the Ones for the deep sections that only get used once a week.

Thanks for the insight.
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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

you may not get 10,000 miles from a rear irc but 8,000 to 10,000km is possible i picked 10,000 miles as that is going to be around 3 schwalbe rear tyres maybe 4 but it is around 2 irc tyres worth of life. A pro one appear to be £35 to £43 in the u.k at present.

I think you have summed up the difference between the two tyres, i would probably use the pro ones regually myself if i was not a tyre killer. I have a old set of schwalbe ones on a bike at present and i like them but i have already a small bulge in the front after a puncture a couple of weeks ago. they tyres have less than 500 miles on them which is a shame. I actually like how the one feels on the road.

dim
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by dim

TobinHatesYou wrote:I don't think it's a coincidence that two people who know each other, who are both honestly very familiar and proficient with tubeless, who bought different models of IRC's new file tread tires...that we both got the exact same unsealable split at the top of the bead.


LOL .... I'll be honest here .... I've searched the internet far and wide and in all languages using google translate .... IRC are a reputable tyre manufacturer (motorbike/bike tyres etc) and after searching the world wide web .... only your (and your mates) IRC tyres have crap reviews ... (no one else on the world wide web)

and you both know each other well

so ..... I smell a rat .... but I will leave it at that 8)
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

1. Nobody said IRC is disreputable. I just said I think their 2017 line potentially has a design defect.
2. They’re brand new tires which only started seeing retail a few months ago. Of course there aren’t many reviews.
3. What would I have to gain by lying about my experience, or my friend? We went out of our way to get these tires shipped from Japan for about $75/ea.
4. As someone who is obviously extremely pro road tubeless, I want our limited tire choices to all be great options.

Also why does bm0p700f keep referring to the Roadlites? That’s an older tire. Formula Pro Tubeless Lights are the current “race” tire.

Ride the 2017 IRC Formula Pro Tubeless if you want, but please keep an eye on the sidewall just above the bead periodically.

P.S. I’m a little bothered that my earnest safety concerns over these tires are being treated as a conspiracy and fake news.

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