Review of change from CCU to AX-Lightness Stream 38T

[pletharoe]

I thought people may be interested in my experience of the move from Mavic CCU to AX-Lightness Stream 38T (with Extralite hub). I've only changed the front wheel so far (that's another story), but it has given me more insight into the contrast.

I've done nearly 200km on the new wheel, taking in some serious hills on very bad (concrete) roads, which are open to strong winds.

Ride quality
Even on smooth roads, the AX Lightness gave a much smoother ride. I always knew the Mavic could feel a bit harsh, but had got used to it. Now the difference is obvious.

Cross winds
People are going to say that I'm imagining this, but the Mavic's old school profile appears to be less susceptible to being pushed around in the wind. Maybe this sensation has been increased by the AX Lightness' smooth ride which means I feel less connected to the road leading to me thinking that the stem is slipping around the steerer tube, which is pretty unnerving! I am sure that I will get used to this reduced road feedback over time.

Braking
In dry conditions the AX Lightness is leaps and bounds ahead of Mavic. In the wet they are both rubbish.
The AX Lightness has a more uniform braking surface, leading to less pulsing.
When the Mavic gets hot, it squeals under braking.
Mavic require yellow pads which leave a yellow mark on the rim which doesn't look so great.

Handling
With the Mavic, everything is turned up to 11. It handles great with tons of road feedback. The AX Lightness is considerably more sedate, but I think this may actually help keep it in contact with bumpy roads in a twisting descent.

Aesthetics
The AX Lightness is a beautiful, polished modern engineering masterpiece.
The Mavic just looks badass!

[kgt]

What about stiffness? When going downhill fast? When sprinting?
I am asking since CCU should be a much stiffer wheelset (that's why the road feedback is so amplified).

[mimason]

I am reading into this as the Mavics are very stiff and the AX wheels are squishy but comfortable. Two totally different performance categories. Of course this is only the front wheel. If you have multiple wheelsets the AX are probably a nice set to add to the quiver but I wouldn't want these as the only set, or for performance riding.

[pletharoe]

@kgt
I think more stiffness is not necessarily good. If a wheel is 100% stiff, then it will bounce and ricochet off all the potholes and spend half of the time in the air which isn't helpful. Conversely, we all know the problems posed by a flexible wheel. Ideally you need some sort of compromise.

I haven't done any super-fast descents yet, the only big descents I've done have been 10-15% with lots of hairpin turns, so actually very slow. Nevertheless I have put in some decent times without really trying, this could be down to the superior braking or handling. I love the feedback I get from the CCUs, but I think the AX Lightness probably has a performance advantage.

As for sprinting, I don't think that stiffness plays a huge role in the front wheel. I had trouble with 404s flexing, but neither of these wheels had any problems.

I think the real stiffness argument will be lost and won with the rear wheel. I will report back when I get that.

[wheelsONfire]

I could agree on most things. My question, do you have the latest CCU rim treatment on your CCU?
I had the first batch of the new treatment on mine (2014 version).
There is no pulsating no matter how hard you brake down or modulate.
But i should add, we have no long descents where i live, so i can't say how any of the sets react for extreme braking descending.

I also think that the Extralite hub is less stiff than Tunes dito. I checked with some wheel builders and most suggested Tune.
I also know from speaking to Nils Wiedemann, that the DT version set will be even stiffer (but weight increase is obviously a downside).

Personally, i used full wheelsets when running both Stream 38 and CCU. I prefer Stream 38 by far.

Why?

You are right, CCU offers more feedback. It is in comparison a bit twitchy, and Stream 38 is more calm and feels more stable.
I find CCU more prone to get affected my wind and that is one of the two things you noticed right away.

When i say feedback, it may sound like a good thing. But for me it translate into a direct sense of the least bit of irregularity of the tarmac.
It is not needed. It's not like Stream 38 won't tell what you are doing. Just that CCU is too prone to throw all at you.
It is for me putting unnecessary wear on the rider.

1. Stream is more smooth in ride feel - CCU feels more stiff and sadly harsher.
2. Stream is more stabile - CCU is more twitchy.

Stream is a much wider rim, about 30%, a wider tire bead.
This makes a difference in the stability and ride feel and you will notice.
CCU is classical V-shape, but a bit rounded.

I did not find any fact that either wheelset makes you faster.
I had both sets available (both mine for 1 year).
The weight difference is here (Stream 38 with Tune Mig45/Mag150 1010 grams) , but CCU feels very snappy and direct.
I should add, my Stream 38 was the later with only one small sticker and not 3.

I rode CCU with all from 21-25mm tires and it could not brake even with Stream in ride feel.
CCU ride stiffer. Personally i liked Schwalbe One tubular best with CCU.
The 22mm version suits the rims best aswell as in my opinion, was the best handling and fastest i used with this wheelset.

Riding Stream 38 for a long time and swapping back to CCU, i did not like CCU.
Stream 38, in my opinion, does not come off as feeling fast. But it is due to how much of a calm performer it is.
It is so stable that it don't draw attention. I also did find i cornered more calm and stable with Stream 38 which i did not think i would.

Perhaps for the common amateur rider, which ride for fun and training, Stream 38 is a safer bet!
CCU, i think it may come off as a great cool wheel which could speak to you as a buyer.
But i would say it's a larger risk you come to try to alter things on your bike to get the better feel.

There is also something to consider. CCU is under renewal. It has been a ongoing work for Mavic for years now.
The new CCU will be wider profile to increase stability, to make it more stable.

None of these two wheelset will throw you around in side wind or cross winds.
No need to push that as a fact to be afraid of. Look more on the feel of things.
Here is the true corner stone.

For Aero, we need to jump to deeper sets. I also bought Easton Aero 55 (tubular).
Not many seem to like Easton here, but for me, this was a very nice experience.
Very quite hubs, after 1 ride i think the hubs opened up and i have used this set almost entirely now.
Very fun, very nice ride feel. It is a superb ride feel with Veloflex Carbon.
Sure, it is 1380 grams and Stream 38 is 1010 grams. I like both of them better than CCU.
Aero 55 tubular is extremely wide at 28mm over brake track. It bulbs out at 30mm at it's widest.
It's still optimized for 22-23mm tires according to Eastons technical department.
Personally i think this set with Veloflex Carbon is very nice.
Again, this is even wider but also deeper. It is very very stable and ride feel is the best i have had with Veloflex Carbon (23mm tubular)

Wheels tested/ used on Vial EVO D.
Also consider, Vial EVO D is not a harsh riding bike/ frame, to begin with.
I also used CCU on my previous Foil and that my friends, was not a good combination.
Such a stiff riding frame (talking ride feel and feedback) should have been used with Easton Aero 55.

[kgt]

thanks for the review

[wheelsONfire]

thanks for the review

For my input, i could only say. This is from my perspective (ofcourse!)

I kept it as honest as i could. I can also say my CCU was sold after my testing period.
Simply put, i realized i did not want to use them any more.

[kgt]

Honest, subjective inputs like yours are the best reviews we have IMO.

[wheelsONfire]

Thanks KGT!

Well, i have been made aware of the fact that ride feel is very important.
To me, it's what generates a positive experience of cycling.
If that is lacking, there is the problem solver waking up... He usually spends a lot of money testing.

When things ride very well (aswell as perform well), my big biggest scare is actually doing changes.

[nobuseri]

Nice review; thanks for taking time to provide some insight based on actually trying both wheelsets.

[wheelsONfire]

I forgot one thing!

As far as i was informed, Easton will change bearings in Echo hubs. I think only Enduro 3645 (x1) will remain an angular bearing.
The other bearings will not be and they will not be from Enduro.
Echo hubs are very silent, Tune hubs has their own "tune"/ sound which is not very silent (if that matters?)

The standard Echo hub was consisting of these bearings
(The standard bearings are not hybrids and not ceramics. They are steel just as Tune)

Enduro 6901 C0 x2 (Rear) This bearing is available in Ceramic Hybrid, and Zero Ceramic.
Enduro 71801 Angular Contact x3 (Front And Rear) This bearing is available in Ceramic Hybrid.
Enduro 3645 Angular Contact Bearing (Rear This bearing is available in Ceramic Hybrid.

So as you see, you could not update all bearings for Zero Ceramic versions.
But the standard bearings work very well talking roll.
My set was broken in after 40-60Km.

Nothing more to report really talking the hubs. What i mean is, they run flawless and both wheelsets roll very well.
No mechanical issues at all.

[Skunkworks]

How about braking performance of two wheels?
I heard Mavic's TgMAX tech is pretty cool and CCU could endure harsh breaking.
How about AX's?

[ichobi]

Would like to hear more about braking on Easton too.

[wheelsONfire]

How about braking performance of two wheels?
I heard Mavic's TgMAX tech is pretty cool and CCU could endure harsh breaking.
How about AX's?

Well, to be honest you would need a super long descending to judge that.
I also guess you would be needing to brake both rims so long they collapsed (or pretty close) to judge that.
Otherwise, were is your data?
A 3 part need to do that test not to be biased.

We can seriously assume, you and i will never know this.
All i can say, use approved brake pads and if the rims would collapse or wear down, you should contact respective company.

Now, for the next question.

Eastons brake surface.
Honestly, if you run Easton Aero 55, Ax Stream 38 and CCU there is no radically different out come no matter what they write up for you to believe.
I have used SwissStop yellow and Black prince on all 3, and BP is offering better modulation. I think the yellow is a less firm pad, which might be slightly better if it is wet. But otherwise i prefer BP. BP wears quicker though.

Something we might agree on here, it also may come down to how hard we squeeze the brakes!
I have no wear at any of my rims. When i sold the CCU the guy who bought them came here. He was getting a wheel that almost looked like new.
To be fair, i don't think any carbon rim impress me when it rains. Going down and going fast i always forget how long it does take to make the bike actually stop. No wheelset (of these 3) is as mentioned, radically better. Differences are so small they could aswell be a placebo effect.
So, therefor i can not say anything else than this.

When someone talk of a cooler braking, it's the resin or surface treatment if any, that helps.
This we can never see or never notice.
You would need to have some serious lab for this.
I know a guy who destroyed a rim.
None of these brands (Madfiber).

What did he do you wonder!?

He had several wheelsets. Last he used an aluminium rim and forgot to change pads.
He changed wheels to Madfiber, and went off for a race.

Obviously it was some serious descending there, because he managed to make the rim collapse.
It was researched as the wheelset was brand new. It was particles from aluminium in the used pads that made the surface damaged.
When that had happened it burned the rim.

This is what i was told. I also talked to Mavic about such events. I guess most manufacturers will take the wheels back. Then they actually manage to see what kind of brake pad material we have used if we kill the rims. It is not possible to get it off (they told me).
This is why we should use approved pads. No warranty is approved if we use pads not approved for the specific rim.
So think twice before you play around with different pads, and never mix pads you used for aluminium rims with those you will use for carbon rims.

[sawyer]

My experience of CCU's braking was good in the dry, and a bit below average for carbon wheels these days in the wet (this being the older brake track)

Personally think they are overpriced wheels for what they are. They do look very cool and dramatic on a bike with big 3K type carbon weave everywhere, and gave a very nice muted ride quality, but, subjective as it is, I never felt they were particularly fast vs the usual suspects (Boras, Zipps etc)