Are mavic wheels that bad?

[davidalone]

They are fine. get the job done, hardy. but expensive for what they do, if you buy them at retail.

[Tinea Pedis]

Narrow rims

Bad because? You can still fit a 25 tyre to it. Tests are showing narrow rims can still be as fast as the new, wider, profiles. And they now offer a wider option.

not particularly aero

The CXR80 slugs it out - and has beaten - the equivalent Zipp.

freehub engagement is slow

Only two pawls but I've never had an issue racing on them. You're certainly not losing races because of it.

Black brake track may also wear off over time (though that may be more of a problem with the first generation Exalith)

Issue pretty much resolved by second generation Exalith. They're not on to third gen.

CCU owners reviews aren't "enthusiastic" as well "harsh" and "feel dead" are in most reviews.

I struggle to find many people who knock them. Personally they've felt a terrific wheel to ride/race on.

[Denavelo]

They've been selling the CCU wheels for years, and unchanged for those same years. Do we commend them for not falling victim to trends (24mm wide, Tubeless, etc), or look down on them as a company for not evolving? I'm pretty sure if they released a new wide carbon wheel, tubeless compatible people would be buying them up. How many pro teams are still running Mavic wheels? They were the gold standard for training wheels. Sounds like Mavic should hire some new young talent to refresh their lineup. My buddy had a set of CCU's and said it was the one wheelset he wish he didn't sell. Stiff and fast!

[wingguy]

One of the articles I read on the acquisition opined that Enve was bought because Mavic was not competitive on technology. Well now Mavic has some technology. Expect to see a lot of Enve ideas incorporated in new Mavic products. Carbon wheels have basically taken over.

I've seen the new wheels that Mavic already have coming out this year. They have already caught up on weight, brake track technology, an interesting dissolving bladder construction system (Enve removes theirs after baking), the fat, wide aero shape looks bang up to date and the wheelset comes in at less than the cost of the Enve rims. 2 years ago it would have been a different story but now I don't really see them needing or wanting to re-write much of their own tech to the Enve model.

I've always been curious why Mavic don't have a line of componentry though (at least bar/stem/post, anyway), and I wonder if something might happen there.

[wingguy]

They've been selling the CCU wheels for years, and unchanged for those same years.

The CCUs have had a few running changes. Nothing drastic on aero, but resins and construction have been tweaked here and there.

How many pro teams are still running Mavic wheels?

That's not a measure of anything these days - especially with Shimano, Campag and SRAM demanding fully bundled sponsorship deals for their paid teams. Doesn't leave much on the table for other wheel companies.

[Tinea Pedis]

Well with 'Mavic' buying Enve the changes in manufacturing make a lot more sense.

[wingguy]

What, Mavic's changes? It's not connected. Mavic's new wheels have been in development for a couple of years, and they're executing them quite differently to how Enve make theirs.

[Tinea Pedis]

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/internat ... st81_l97IU

Thought there could have been some IP sharing. But that's just pure speculation given this news.

[istigatrice]

Bad because? You can still fit a 25 tyre to it. Tests are showing narrow rims can still be as fast as the new, wider, profiles. And they now offer a wider option.

If you're riding rough roads I'd recommend having the wider rim (especially if your frame can take it). I did mention some of their Ksyrium line do have a slightly wider rim.

The CXR80 slugs it out - and has beaten - the equivalent Zipp.

The OP asked about the Ksyriums. Agree that the CXR80 wheels are fast.

Only two pawls

Case in point. Might not cause you any issues in races doesn't necessarily mean it's a 'fun' product to ride

Issue pretty much resolved by second generation Exalith. They're not on to third gen.

I never said anything about third gen, and yes I did mention past first gen that most of the issues were solved.

Back to the OP, they asked about Ksyrium Pro Exalith, and I'd be inclined to say that particular wheel could be better for the reasons I outlined originally.

[Tinea Pedis]

And on what basis have you found you need a wider rim with a bigger tyre? Nothing compelling I've ever found - anything remotely quantitatively based?

Two pawls are "not fun"? What does that even mean? Their races wheels have two, so you'd think if it were some cost cutting measure it would at least be more in their more expensive models. But they run with two all the way up, so guess they're either out to be the fun police or...it's less of an issue than you'd like to make of it.

Both your statements are really without any basis other than 'more is better'.

I know you didn't mention third gen, but you did mention the first. Of which I can only find evidence of with the R-Sys. My post was meant to read "They're now on to third gen" - which is relevant as the OP (as you keep pointing out) is looking at current Ksyrium Pro Exalith. So mentioning the brake track wear is redundant (and just smacked of some typical Mavic bashing).

[istigatrice]

I prefer the wider rim's cornering feel, and having less pinch flats/better traction on dirt climbs and descents. I can give you an Ostwald distribution on the number of times I've pinch flatted on narrower rims vs. wider rims and perhaps find that the significance is greater than 3 delta, if you really want, but I think this is where our biggest difference lies. You seem like a numbers/quantitative person, I'm not a big numbers person.

fun, it's why some people ride. If this argument means nothing to you then you'll probably never notice things like 2 pawls vs 6 pawls etc. Like the above, it's not something quantitative it's qualitative. I guess this argument must frustrate you to no end and can be seen as not having a 'basis' - I'm not trying to say more is better, nor do I ignore the quantitative aspects, it's just sometimes I notice certain qualitative aspects, which can (for me) sway a product from 'good' to something which needs improvement.

TLDR; Mavic wheels are a good benchmark. I'm just picky about weird things you may not be picky about.

Thanks for clearing up the third gen thing. I was slightly confused when you mentioned it

[Tinea Pedis]

The issue is these are still n=1 that you wording passes off as gospel. That's the point I am making. I've no issue with qualitative data, only when it's not qualified.

I also have issue with assumptions made of people, which you've hit right out of the park. Congrats.

And for the record, you might find your 'fun' increases when you stop stressing the small stuff and try and enjoy the ride. Then you might appreciate Mavic aren't as bad you might suggest. And hey, it's even a qualitative measure just to prove one of your (many) assumptions wrong.

[istigatrice]

Sorry if I've got that completely wrong, you may assume that I'm bad with assumptions. I've got no qualms with Mavic, it's just the particular wheel the OP is considering (in fact I quite like their newer wide ISM4D rims). But I guess since the wheels are round, stiff and light they'll do the job.

[calvin]

I've used Mavics (Aksium, Ksyrium and Cosmic) for the last 5 years and i never had any issues with them. Of course they are not even close to Zipps in terms of quality but considering the two times lower price they are fine for me

[cmcdonnell]

I must admit I don't buy the wider rim thing either. Mostly used 15C campy rims over the years and never had issues. My newish Bora's are 17C and I can't tell the difference. I started trying 25mm tyres on my 15C's last year and they were fine but to be honest no better than the 23mm's I'd been running since about 1998. When I got the Bora's I tried 25mm but they looked massive and "felt" heavy so put 23mm's on which seem perfect as they run at 24.8 on the 17C rim. I noticed an improvement switching from 21's to 23's back in the 90's and couldn't imagine going back but 25's don't offer me an advantage; although if I was riding cobbles I reckon they would be fab as Flanders and Roubaix killed me on 23mm's but for normal road riding they are unnecessary for me. Never had stability issues or pinch flats ever with 23mm's at 90-100 psi. Maybe weight is s factor? Do heavier riders need wider tyres? I'm only 58 kg.