U shape/toroid profile aluminium

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mpulsiv
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

Added Velocity Quill and Pacenti SL23 v2 rim profile to the mix. Velocity Quill has a very shallow bead compared to competition, needless to say 1.7mm brake track + hook compared to 2mm on Pacenti SL23 v2.
Happy-medium appear to be DT Swiss R460 (build ~90 grams heavier) VS. Pacenti SL v2.

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mpulsiv
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

What about Boyd Alamont? Shape looks like a copy of FLO 30, as aero as it gets.
http://www.boydcycling.com/2016-altamont-alloy-clincher

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Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

joepac
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:43 pm

by joepac

My training wheelset is the American Classic Victory 30 tubeless. 23mm wide, 17mm inner, 30mm deep, 1550g. Hubs are decent, but the tiny bearings in the front wear out relatively quickly. The newest 420 aero 3 is going to be 23mm wide, 34mm deep, and under 1600g with nicer hubs. The Boyd Altamonts are 31mm, 24mm wide, and ~1600g. If you want fancier hubs I'd recommend kinlins. My cheap older kinlins (30mm deep 19mm outer) have yet to let me down (not counting that I managed ruin one Kinlin hitting and flipping over a guy in a wreck, however). I doubt there are any toroidal aluminum rims other than flow just because at 30mm you're getting very little aero benefit for a lot of extra weight.

If you're catching crosswinds on a 27mm going deeper is not going to make it any better. I don't feel much of difference between my wider Victory 30s and my narrower old style Rol Race SLs (Kinlin 30mm deep 19mm wide outer). I'm 170 lbs and pretty easily handle my 55mm deep race wheels which are modern U shaped rims which noticeably (but predictably) catch the crosswinds. At your weight you really should not be getting blown around by 27mm rims... Instead of focusing on the wheels moving and reacting to that just try focusing on where you want to go and you will subconsciously react to your bike going off that line and point it back in that direction. When it's really windy your body is going to be catching the wind moving your bike off line a lot more than such shallow wheels.

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WMW
in the industry
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by WMW

joepac wrote:When it's really windy your body is going to be catching the wind moving your bike off line a lot more than such shallow wheels.


If you haven't experienced it, then you can't relate. But it is very possible for a weird gust to make a narrow 27mm rim with a wide tire act like it has a mind of its own. Where I live, 50mph gusts are common in the spring. And hilly terrain means you are sometimes going 50 mph when that gust hits you.

I think what's happening is that when the angle is just right, you have a good airfoil on the front of the rim, which creates lift and a very strong sideforce. And on the back side of the wheel, there is no airfoil effect to counter it.

The newer wide rims are much better because the leading and trailing edges look very similar, provided that you use a narrow tire.
formerly rruff...

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LouisN
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by LouisN

I would love to see a tubular version of the Velocity Quill at below 400 grams :beerchug: :D !!!

Louis :)

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kavitator
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by kavitator

How durable is Velocity Quill rim? Only 415g !!!
More than 100$ per rim!

DT R460 i have ready to bult 24/28 spokes front/rear ; Aivee SR1 hubset - rims are 464g to 476g - finish is very good only spoke holes are not perfect finished (like on H plus son Archetype)

But DT are cheap :beerchug:

bikerector
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:04 pm

by bikerector

I was going to suggest the Velocity Quill rim or the Boyd Altamont. I rode the Boyd's while i was waiting for the quill to be developed. I had the ailerons once they came out and I was asking Velocity's marketing guys if they planned a rim brake equivalent and sure enough, they were.

No doubt, the boyd altamonts are a nice wheel. I was using the altamonts as a backup for races and as a training wheel/ I just wanted to try it out. Really liked it. I had some arcehtypes built to 105 hubs before the altamonts and I never really got on with them. I don't think the build quality was there for some reason, I could never get the rear wheel figured out and after popping a few spokes I forwarded the wheels on to a friend that's much lighter than I am. Usually, I never have problems with 32h spoked wheels, especially on the road.

I've put about a thousand miles into the quill rims (pro build from velocity) now, built up 24F/28R, and they've been quite solid. The torture test velocity did on the rim shows it holding up nearly as well as the aileron which I use on my CX bike for gravel races paired up to shim CX-75 hubs built up 28/28.

I tried my best to get the weight of the wheels to display, if you can't see it, it shows 1433 grams for the wheelset. No skewers or rim tape. This was fresh from the box from velocity. http://i.imgur.com/vFAI5re.jpg

The reason for the short sidewall on the quill is part for increased durability, based on their experiences with the blunt SS mtb rim, and part because it's a tubeless road rim. I tried it tubeless with maxxis padrone 25mm tires and the setup was pretty easy. http://i.imgur.com/wMBkbGE.jpg

I weigh 100 kg/220 lbs. I've pretty easy on road wheels for a big guy despite having a decent kick. I haven't noticed any more flex from the quills than I did from my boyd 44mm carbons built 24/28. I am sponsored by velocity for CX/gravel and XC mtb racing. I got one of the first sets of the quill wheels to come off of the wheel builders' floor.

Here's some of my first impressions of the wheels from before I took some time off for the winter. http://www.cyclingandsuffering.com/2015 ... pressions/

Zoose
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:42 am
Location: Arizona

by Zoose

I had cracking issues with some Pacenti SL23 rims but they were the V1. Kirk is great to work with and will replace if anything happens with the V2 which I haven't seen crack.

Another option is the Ligero VM29. 29mm height with 24 width and correct shape. Weight is not bad either. I have a set of these as well and tires go on easily. You can find a video of Troy mounting brand new tires to see for yourself. Dark matter coating is not available but I believe the standard rims are available to ship out.

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Rim: http://www.ligerowheelworks.com/shop/li ... 29-pro-rim
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4Qvk6Y3MTU

nathanong87
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by nathanong87

mythical wrote:Anyway, I have Pacenti SL23s in 20/24H and that's the rim I would recommend.


if u get the new versions of them.... my friend had no less than 3 rims crack on him in a year. Junk house if u ask me. Replaced for free sure, but a headache.

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F45
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am

by F45

If you are looking for aero then a 21mm inner width on a 24mm outer width rim is not what you're looking for. You'll have to put on a 21mm tire to keep the bulb shape from happening. Now a 17mm inner on a 24mm outer, that's a lot better design.

Zoose
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:42 am
Location: Arizona

by Zoose

F45 wrote:You'll have to put on a 21mm tire to keep the bulb shape from happening.
Can you explain this? I always thought that the important aspect of the rim width was the inside width and that the wider the rim, the more spread out the tire casing and thus the better profile for the tire. In fact, I thought that the inner width was all that mattered as even if the outside width was 30mm (an extreme example) with the inside width staying at 17mm, the tire would still form the same shape. I haven't seen any science on this and I've only thought it through in my head.

I'm genuinely curious if you have any sources or can explain why a 17mm inside would give a less bulb shape tire with a better aero profile than a 21mm inside width?

joepac
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:43 pm

by joepac

http://amclassicsales.com/store/index.p ... ero-3.html
The new 420 aero 3s are pretty badass. 34mm deep 22mm wide and 1530g.
The shimano dura ace c35 is a v shape, but seems to be well reviewed and stable as well.
Both are more expensive than your other options though :? .

Also, I would not be riding in 50 mph with deep section wheels... I would probably avoid riding except to wind dope a few strava segments :mrgreen:

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F45
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by F45

Zoose wrote:I'm genuinely curious if you have any sources or can explain why a 17mm inside would give a less bulb shape tire with a better aero profile than a 21mm inside width?


Because you want a tire that is equal to or lesser in width than your outer rim width, for a smooth transition. Check out the difference between the Zipp 101 rim with S works Turbo 22 and 24mm here, a little less than halfway down the page.: http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

This is one of the factors that is driving wider rims. Wider tire = less RR, and you need a wider rim to maintain the aerodynamics. So now we get 30mm wide aero rims.

fignonsbarber
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:24 pm

by fignonsbarber

Zoose wrote:
Another option is the Ligero VM29. 29mm height with 24 width and correct shape. Weight is not bad either. I have a set of these as well and tires go on easily. You can find a video of Troy mounting brand new tires to see for yourself. Dark matter coating is not available but I believe the standard rims are available to ship out.



Rim: http://www.ligerowheelworks.com/shop/li ... 29-pro-rim
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4Qvk6Y3MTU


I would strongly suggest a google search of Ligero wheelworks. I'm surprised he has resurfaced.

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fignonsbarber
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:24 pm

by fignonsbarber

Hands down, I would go with the November wheels with the DT Swiss rims. November is a great company. Last season I had one of their wheels destroyed in a crash. I sent the hub back and received the rebuilt replacement wheel in about a week. Outstanding.

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