Need advice for carbon clincher build

[rasmusic]

My plan for this winter is to build a new set of carbon clinchers, but I need some advice from all the experts on this forum first.

Rims: Chinese carbon rims from either Light-Bicycle or Nextie. (Or maybe Farsports?). The plan is 60mm rim height, but should I go with the 23 mm or 25 mm width?

Hubs: I've always loved DT 240s, but are there any good (and cheaper?) alternatives with a 16H front hub and 20H rear hub? White Industries T11?

Spokes: DT Aerolite with internal niples with radial front and NDS rear, and 2x DS (DT Competition on DS). This is the same spokes and spoke pattern as my old set of Reynolds DV46C that has been great for seven years, so I guess it's ok?

Any good reasons to go with 20/24 instead of 16/20 when the latter has worked well for so many years? (I'm 73 kg/161 lbs). Thanks in advance for all replies.

[bm0p700f]

Have you tried getting 16f/24R hubs not exactly common. You may have to wait. 20f/24R mean readily available hubs like WI T11's and a stiffer wheel. For the sake of 30 to 35g you have to ask why the hell not.

[rasmusic]

The reason I want to go with 16/20 is not the weight, it's the aerodynamic difference.

[istigatrice]

I'd say the rims are pretty much the same - buy from the company which is most reputable. (Both light-bicycle and farsports seem to have a good following here).

I'd also advise 20/24 - the hubs will be easier to source and the wheel would be slightly stronger. I can't remember where I read it (I think it was Zipp) but one of the big companies published aero data for 16 spokes vs 20 spokes and the difference was minimal.

Also, in a slightly different context, this article says the spokes have a minimal impact on the aerodynamics of the wheel. http://www.wing-light.de/downloads/whee ... 090430.pdf

So for the above reasons I'd go with 20/24 as it appears to be an aerodynamically neutral decision.

Hubs - not too much wrong with the WI T11 - Weight is heavy compared to some offerings from Tune, but if weight isn't your biggest concern they're really nice hubs.

[eric]

I agree about 20/24. That's what I use and I'm 145 lbs. You have to finish the race to place.

BHS hubs are a cheaper and lighter alternative to White. I've been partial to Sapim spokes. My few wheels with DTs broke what seemed like more spokes. Of course it could have been the rim or the build (wasn't me).

I also prefer external nipples as they can be adjusted without removing the tire tube and tape. When I am away at a stage race and don't have all my tools, or during a ride, it's still easy to make an adjustment. My carbon race wheels have not needed much of that but I'd hate to need it and not be able to do it.

[F45]

Notice how Shimano uses triplet 21 hole lacing with thick spokes for their deeper clincher rims and carbon tubulars. This is for stiffness.

I would use 24/16 or 24/18. Dura Ace comes in 24/18. Also you can get Miche hubs with triplet rear lacing from bm0p700f.

The Nextie 25mm rims have a more aero profile than the Light Bicycle. I'd get that 60mm that flares to 28mm.

[Multebear]

DT240 are very decent hubs. But the whites are the best money can buy. Better bracing angle, better bearings, ti freehub body and more durable.

16/20 spokeconfig is no problem with 60 mm rims, but when you wear them out, then maybe you'd like some shallower rims, and depending on the depth, 16/20 might not be enough for your weight. 20/24 is the bulletproof config, and a lot of brand name rims come in that config as well e. g. Enve, November and severel other. The aero advantage is marginal.

I have 3 sets of Farsport rims, and I am very satisfied. Both with quality of the rims and with the customer service. I have severel friends who have them as well, and they are very satisfied also. One of my friends has just returned from a mountainous stage race, which he did on his 50 mm x 25 mm U shaped clincher rims with no problems whatsoever.

I think 50 mm is the perfect depth. You don't need deeper for roadrace. If you have several sets, I would combine a 60 mm set with a 38 mm set just to have different choices. And I'd definitely choose the widest possible. Farsports are now offering 27 mm width in different depths. I would choose one of them if I were you.

[rasmusic]

Thanks for all your replies, I love the knowledge on this forum! I will consider the White-hubs instead, but do they really have better bearings than the DT240s? As mentioned, I've also got a pair of 08 Reynolds DV46C (16/20) with DT240s-hubs, and I've never had to change any bearings even when racing them every week during the season for eight years. (So this wheelset will still supplement my new build).

DT240s or White T11, but are there any other hub options? What about something like the Powerway R36?

Many of you recommend a higher spoke count, but as Multebear said, a 60 mm profile will also help. And since my old 46 mm wheelset is stiff enough (never been needed adjustmenst for eight years, and I've used them so much the brake surface is a bit concave), I guess it will work even better with a 60 mm rim.

Derfinitely a wider rim then!

[F45]

If the rim is very stiff, you need more spokes to counteract deflection at the brake track. If you use 20 aerolites on a 60mm cc you're probably going to have problems.

[Multebear]

DT240s or White T11, but are there any other hub options? What about something like the Powerway R36?

Take a look at fairwheelbikes hub review. They have most of the top hubs covered. IMO they should have covered the Dura Ace hubs as well.

I think the top performance hubs to consider for your build (or any build actually) are

CK R45, WI T11, DT 240s, Dura Ace.

If its pure performance, I'd pick the CKs. If you want a little more durability, I'd choose WI or DA (both have brilliant bearings and ti free hub body). DTs have the bracing angle challange, which is why I would discard them.

FWB cover Tune and Extralite as well. But I think they are too big a compromise on weight. If you want light hubs, there's nothing wrong with Bitex hubs. Decent bracing angle, decent bearings, very fair priced and easy to service.

[rasmusic]

Thanks. I've looked at the review. The problem is that the DT240s doesn't seem to come in 16/20 anymore, so it seems like I'm down to these alternatives:

- Tune Mig70/Mag170
- White Industries T11
- Bikehubstore.com's SLF71W/UL190

Any other good hubs I should consider that comes in 16/20? So far the Tune set is on the top of my list, but I'm open for suggestions.

[NovemberDave]

Take this for what it's worth, but the Tune has a maximum tension of 110kgf (1100n). On a 20 spoke rear, even a 60mm deep one, I'd want as much drive side tension as I could get. The WI are going to permit the highest drive side tension, the highest non-drive tension ratio, and the highest gross non-drive tension. I really like Tune hubs, we get to do quite a few builds with them, but they wouldn't be my first choice for this build. At least in the rear wheel.

[rasmusic]

Thanks for yet another interesting input. The drawback with the White's are that they are about $100 more expensive than the Tune's, and the weight, but if I can build a stronger wheel it might be worth it anyway. Are there any other good alternatives?

[rasmusic]

Regarding spoke pattern on the rear wheel: Should I go with 2x DS (DT comp?) and radial NDS (DT aerolite), or 2x on both sides (DT aerolite or aerocomp on DS and DT aerolite on NDS?)?

[rasmusic]

No comments on the rear wheel spoke pattern? I guess 2x on both sides is safe, but should I go with DT aerolite on bot sides, or aerocomp on the DS?