Bigger PITA - Tubulars or Tubeless?

[Miller]

Can you point me in the direction of the website to learn everything I need to know about it?

At the beginning of this year I did a couple of pieces about the basics of tubeless and my experience of it. This isn't the peak of info about tubeless but you might find it useful.

http://www.readingcyclingclub.com/node/1032
http://www.readingcyclingclub.com/node/1039

I'm still enjoying tubeless very much and have no intention of returning to clincher.

[r_mutt]

Tubeless ride quality is still not as good as a good clincher, and not even close to a tubular. When fixing flats, Getting a tube in without cutting the tube is nearly impossible.

Went back to clinchers.

[Miller]

Re r_mutt, I would have to disagree on both your comments, I have found tubeless ride quality to be excellent, and I have been able to do a roadside inner-tube addition successfully. But generally I have found air leaks on tubeless have a good chance of curing themselves with sealant. I was stuck at the side of the road yesterday - but that was waiting for someone else while they fixed a flat and got their hands dirty.

[Tamu8104]

There's positives and negatives to both and it really depends on some variables specific to you. I rode tubulars exclusively for about 3 years before recently switching to tubeless. My thoughts:

Ride Quality: Nothing will beat a good set of tubular rims with some FMB or other top quality tubulars. That said, my current ride has Compass 35s on it and the ride is plush but it's not a racer.

Durability: My main reason for leaving tubulars and this is dependent on where you ride. I rarely could get more than 1500 miles out of a set of tubulars. I do ride some bad pavement/gravel so that contributes to it. My buddy who has been on tubeless regularly gets 4000+ miles on a set.

Mounting/Removing: Tubeless wins here. I love riding tubulars but removing them roadside is a pain and I don't completely trust the spare that put on there. Also, it's nice to be able to mount a tubeless tire and immediately go ride it versus waiting for it to cure. I haven't had any issues removing a tubeless tire but that is very dependent on the rim you use.

[bm0p700f]

I like both. Removing a tub at the road side is quick and mounting a fresh one is quick. Did it recently with a 25mm gatorskin and the riding buddy I was with was surprised how quickly I was done. I did not put more glue on just relied on the glue on the spare tubs and what is left on the rim. The new 22mm gatorskin that I fitted was quite secure when I took it off at the shop to fit the Vittoria all weather I have kicking around. 22m gatorskins are spare tubs as the ride is not that great.

You should not have to wait for a tub to cure before riding. The air pressure if high enough will hold it in place Also this is why my spare tubs are conti's they are a tight fit and I am sure even without glue at 120 psi they would not move.

Tubeless is great when a puncture happens I see the sealant come out and carry on riding knowing I won't have to stop.

[ultyguy]

You punctured a Gatorskin! :-O


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[r_mutt]

Re r_mutt, I would have to disagree on both your comments, I have found tubeless ride quality to be excellent, and I have been able to do a roadside inner-tube addition successfully. But generally I have found air leaks on tubeless have a good chance of curing themselves with sealant. I was stuck at the side of the road yesterday - but that was waiting for someone else while they fixed a flat and got their hands dirty.

I rode a Hutchinson Fusion 3 and the ride was very ordinary-akin to a high mileage tire like a Michelin Lithion. I tried dropping the pressure as pinch flats were theoretically not a problem with tubeless but that only created an issue with bottoming out the wheel on the tire on sharp bumps. Flat protection was great, then after 6 months, I got one that wasn't sealing properly. I destroyed 3 tubes trying to get one in a Campagnolo Shamal. The others in my group had a go and no one could manage. I called a cab and went to the nearest shop. It lucky that I was near a shop or else that would have been a problem. I went back to clinchers soon after.

[bm0p700f]

Schwable one and IRC 25mm tubeless tyres are about as comfortable as it gets. I have a 28mm scheable one on one bike and the ride is more than lush. 65 psi in the rear is all that needs and I don't feel much at all.

Hutchinson tubeless tyres are really quite rubbish next to Schwable and IRC. You are doing the classic try the worst and brand all tubeless tyres the same. It is a bit like trying a TATA nano and thinking all cars are the same and going back to walking.

[Miller]

Unfair to call all Hutch tubeless 'rubbish'. A Fusion3 tubeless in 23 width is not the pinnacle of tubeless technology but it's not their only offering. I've been riding their 28mm Secteur for a few months and really rate it for winter riding. At around 300g it's surprisingly light but it seems very resistant to punctures, offers a very plush ride and rolls very well.

[bm0p700f]

O.K maybe not rubbish but not on par with the Schwable one for comfort or grip but the Hutchinson tyres are lighter.

[r_mutt]

Schwable one and IRC 25mm tubeless tyres are about as comfortable as it gets. I have a 28mm scheable one on one bike and the ride is more than lush. 65 psi in the rear is all that needs and I don't feel much at all.

Hutchinson tubeless tyres are really quite rubbish next to Schwable and IRC. You are doing the classic try the worst and brand all tubeless tyres the same. It is a bit like trying a TATA nano and thinking all cars are the same and going back to walking.

i think comparing walking and driving to Hutchinson and Schwalbe sounds good if you are trying to make a point, but it's more like trying an electric car and then going back to conventional gas. the one BIG difference is when i get a flat on a clincher, i don't have to call a tow truck. that is a deal breaker.

[bm0p700f]

Again I have fitted Schwable one tyres by hand to Pacenti SL23 V1 rims at the road side (cold dark and wet Jan evening). A tyre lever makes it easier. IRC rubber is a bit tighter and I would carry a VAR RP42500 tyre lever set to mount those. Those levers make easy work of tight fitting tyres.

Once again R-mutt you had one problem and think therefore there is no solution apart from going back to clinchers. The solution is a different tubeless tyre and The VAR RP42500 lever set if you have difficulty mounting it.

I would never ride on a tyre that I cannot remove and remount at the side of the road on a cold dark and wet evening I can do that with tubeless what really is the problem. the problem is branding all tubeless tyres the same because of one problem on a one day and then giving up. Tubeless works well the main problem is now you have to learn what tyres work with what rims and how best to mount them. It is a learning curve and giving up means you are not learning. I have learnt and I it did not take long.

[audiojan]

I would say neither… Been using tubeless for about 2 seasons without a single flat, no hassle to maintain or to install. Love the feel of tubeless, as close to tubulars as you can get without actually having to glue them on.

Was racing tubulars for many years, went to clinchers (ease of use) and went back to tubulars again last year. Absolutely LOVE the way they ride. Campy Bora Ultra 35's on my Parlee and ENVE SES6.7 on my Pinarello, both with Veloflex Arenberg. If I got a flat with tubulars, it's obviously a pain, but then again, I race on these wheels, so if I get a flat, the race is pretty much over

[audiophilitis]

Agree with those who've stated that biggest PITA for tubulars is removing old glue from the rim prior to applying a fresh coat. I'm hoping this new product from Vittoria, Magic Mastic http://www.vittoria.com/accessories/roa ... ic-mastik/ is the solution.

[natefontaine]

How old is this glue you are removing? I don't know anyone that removes the glue to install a tubular. Tubulars have been great with orange seal. My current Conit Competition front just hit 9000km and Open Corsa rear is ca 3000km. A few punctures but they sealed. On a group ride I had a puncture in the rear in a 4 man break, heard the puncture, thought my ride was over. Stopped for ~10sec and it sealed. Got back up to speed and caught back up to the break. Last tire I mounted was back in October.