Curve Cycling Wheels

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Wingnut
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by Wingnut

sugarkane wrote: I mean who seriously wants to see an in depth review of a middle rung tire for riding your $2k road bike to work on. I has absolutely no relevance to the Real Weight Weenie Crowd. Penny Weenies maybe but that's an undercurrent of the forums that has dragged it down over the last few years.


I would be very careful with that statement sugarkane! Some people scrimp and save to buy for their bikes and you might be isolating yourself from some potential customers...would hate to categorize you as an "elitist" or "snob"...

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sugarkane
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by sugarkane

Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade Wingnut.. I'm not in the business of facilitating bikes for 'the people'.

So how come istigarice it's ok for you to give your mate brad a big write up for pretty much doing what curve are doing with not one hint of its made in China, where is the aero data, lab testing blah blah blah.. But when it comes to the guys at curve cycling ( elite level racers, one world champ and all round hitters ) who have gone all in on there venture, are poring money and resources into cycling/racing in Australia..
I have been a bit harsh but you attitude has seriously upset me.

Word of real deal advice.. If you want people to give you a start and back what your trying to do in the industry, you need to compartmentalise your opions on things you have yet to actually get your hands on until it's time to write your review. Going in biased won't get you a start let alone an unbiased and worthwhile reviewing platform..
Get serious, learn some manners and if you play your cards right you'll have a nice supply of bikes/wheels/kit to ride around on..

by Weenie


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Exar
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by Exar

TheDarkInstall wrote:
sawyer wrote:Curve's offering looks to be about $1000 overpriced


LOL, at least...

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/OEM-T700 ... eb201560_6

But hey, at least Curver give you a set of the exact same skewers and brake pads that FarSports supply with the very same wheels...



Don't forget they sell those skewers for $80 :D
Chains to the right!

glepore
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by glepore

sugarkane wrote:Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade Wingnut.. I'm not in the business of facilitating bikes for 'the people'.

So how come istigarice it's ok for you to give your mate brad a big write up for pretty much doing what curve are doing with not one hint of its made in China, where is the aero data, lab testing blah blah blah.. But when it comes to the guys at curve cycling ( elite level racers, one world champ and all round hitters ) who have gone all in on there venture, are poring money and resources into cycling/racing in Australia..
I have been a bit harsh but you attitude has seriously upset me.

Word of real deal advice.. If you want people to give you a start and back what your trying to do in the industry, you need to compartmentalise your opions on things you have yet to actually get your hands on until it's time to write your review. Going in biased won't get you a start let alone an unbiased and worthwhile reviewing platform..
Get serious, learn some manners and if you play your cards right you'll have a nice supply of bikes/wheels/kit to ride around on..


Dude, take a step back, much of what you just wrote could apply to yourself.

No dog in this fight, not buying from either of you.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

istigatrice
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by istigatrice

sugarkane wrote:your mate brad a big write up for pretty much doing what curve are doing with not one hint of its made in China

Brad is very different. I am not his friend, I discovered his brand because he sponsors a few of our local athletes and I thought it would be interesting to investigate his story. I have seen him once in my life - and that was to conduct the interview. Had they been cheap chinese frames I would have written that. If you read my article I state that they are not cheap chinese frames - you won't find their frames in any catalogue - That's debatable right now with Curve. Brad does not make his frames - he doesn't hide it and I have written about that detail in full.

sugarkane wrote:Word of real deal advice.. If you want people to give you a start and back what your trying to do in the industry, you need to compartmentalise your opions on things you have yet to actually get your hands on until it's time to write your review. Going in biased won't get you a start let alone an unbiased and worthwhile reviewing platform..

Again, I reiterate I am unbaised about these wheels. As you've said I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade. Curve have not provided any evidence thus far that their rims are proprietary to them, and so I am calling them out on that. I believe it would be more biased of me to say 'hey, I don't think they are' when I myself have my doubts.

sugarkane wrote:Get serious, learn some manners and if you play your cards right you'll have a nice supply of bikes/wheels/kit to ride around on..

The last thing I want is companies "buying" reviews from me. I'm a firm believer of the scientific method etc. I would not publish data etc unless I can give an uncertainty, or if the uncertainty is negligible. Some companies respect that, others don't. I'm not afraid to upset companies just for good relations and future reviews.

Anyway, I've said before if you want to discuss these points with me feel free to pm me - or start a new topic if you really want this to be in public eye. I really hate dragging discussions off topic, and I perceive the rest of the forum is getting quite sick of this sort of thing happening. However I feel the need to defend myself against some of these (false) accusations though, apologies for engaging in this 'dog fight' - I guess I should just have faith in my own writing and let the blog speak for itself.

Peace sugarkane. I'll walk my path and you can walk yours. All the best to you mate.
I write the weightweenies blog, hope you like it :)

Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)

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sugarkane
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by sugarkane

I should know better than to get involved in these things istigarice. Normally i wouldn't but it's a company I'm close with that puts a lot in to the Australian cross and road racing at a national level. One of there riders won a national title this year..

Peace to you and good luck in your endeavours

sawyer
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by sawyer

sugarkane wrote:I should know better than to get involved in these things istigarice. Normally i wouldn't but it's a company I'm close with that puts a lot in to the Australian cross and road racing at a national level. One of there riders won a national title this year..

Peace to you and good luck in your endeavours


Fair enough, and good on them for doing that. It's better to be up front with any association in situations like this.

The tone of some posts may have been OTT, but some others on this thread are quite legitimately questioning the VFM of the product, and have no axe to grind ...
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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

bikebloke
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by bikebloke

I've been to the Far Sports office and seen the brands they build for. Far Sports don't own a factory, they are supplied by a third party factory, I have been there too, as well as a dozen + other carbon rim factories in Taiwan and Xiamen. Far Sports are just a trading company and wheel builder. Pretty much all but the absolute largest bicycle and component companies have trading companies in Taiwan, even Scott have a trading company who source manufacturers, product, wheel builders and bike assemblers for them and handle most of the local language communication for product development and orders in a similar way to Far Sports offer to smaller companies. Specialized and DT Swiss rims are manufactured by Carbotec, which I'm sure would sell to guys like Curve if Curve approached them with a big enough order. In all reality dealing with the big factories is not that different to dealing with the rest it's just down to how many you are willing to buy. Plus the big factories often know less about what riders want so don't tend to push the design envelope. Making product that is low cost is obviously key to the biggest companies who have multi-tiered distribution channels (Factory>Brand>Distributor>Shop>Customer) that cost a lot so need lots of margin. Developing a new rim for a large company is very similar to that for a small company. Buying rims from one of Mavic's biggest suppliers is very easy for small guys. The real thing you get from buying from any wheel brand outside of China is a liability responsibility by that brand e.g. to have made sure they have properly considered their customers safety in a legal way by appropriately testing and checking the product, production procedures, ISO wheel testing and manufacturing compliance by suppliers etc and having customer liability insurance, good luck to your family trying to claim from Far Sports in China if you suffer an injury as a result of a Far Sports wheel failure. The other more minor, but still important to many riders reasons are, new wheel specs not always available from the far sports types, usually a faster more ready supply of spares and service, good English/local language, graphics that don't make your bike look sucky (totally understand that not all riders care about this but many of us do), and a company that you can relate to, may not seem important to some but I don't buy from companies I don't like and have the same values as I do because that helps me trust they will do right by me if i need help, I think many riders are the same.

The fact is business is not simple black and white, all companies that have customers are obviously serving them in some way otherwise they would not have spent their hard earned cash with them. Ruling one as good and one as bad is just a matter of opinion often swayed by limited facts, what you look for in a product/service is almost definitely different to that desired by others, hence why millions of companies exist all over the world serving different customers. It's also important to consider your thoughts and words carefully as often these companies have several employees some even with families, children, mortgages none of whom deserve ill advised negative comments to be cast about the work they put their efforts into every day unless that person has taken due care to understand the situation well. Have you asked any of the companies you feature for comment on your views in your you tube video like a journalist would? I would also say the fairest comments are from customers who experience their service and product and can truly evaluate their usefulness and so will either recommend to friends/buy again or not if the company has not served them well.

I feel that there is rather more knowledge to be shared about the bike industry and how it works. It is reasonable that not everyone here is aware that many of the large wheel brands operate in a very similar way purchasing spokes, hubs, rims and using wheel builders that are not their own ip or within their company. I am personally aware of several aluminium wheelsets sold by very major US brands distributed through large distribution firms and sold through local bike shops and costing in the region of $400-800 that were made entirely from open mold hubs and rims and built by 3rd party wheel builders. In all honesty it's very similar to how most lower to mid range alloy/steel frames are made for many large and small bike brands, tubes selected from a catalogue, geometry which has basically been the same for years and then painted with a brand name applied. The iteration of design within even the largest most innovative companies is 'borrowed' from the good practice of others and then tweaked to their needs and ideas. The more mature a market is the more this will happen as there is little effective true innovation left to achieve a 'better' product. Instead it shifts to a niching of products and customers often even developing extremely high end targets, look at Rapha in Clothing, and efficiency/cost reductions e.g Canyon, both companies who have never manufactured a piece of clothing or a frame, they simply work with good suppliers and started by speccing readily available parts to create their whole product.

I also feel that the motivation of many of these companies is misunderstood here, many of them have been started to offer riders wheels that the customer otherwise couldn't buy or at a price (with local service and liability/safety assessment back-up onus as required by 1st world importing companies by law) that often cost the rider much less than competing large traditional brands and not much more than they would be delivered from someone like far sports once taxes and shipping are taken into account. It's probably worth being aware that your average major bike brand dealer will make around 38-40% gross margins once their rebates are taken into account, and these wheel companies obviously range in price but usually cost around 15-20% more than the same wheel from far sports would be delivered with sales tax (20% in europe and charge on duty and shipping as well), import duty (5% in europe and charged on shipping too) and shipping. Also, whilst some of the hubs and rims are available direct at very good prices the variations and wheel specs are not always available e.g. road centre lock disc hubs with 24 holes didn't use to be available at all 2 years ago but some of these companies could order them in a qty of say 200 and thus get the specs their customers wanted. No far eastern hub producers would custom drill one set of hubs for a customer ever. Plus things like alloy rims with true disc specific road profiles with asymmetric geometry, not something a far eastern company would understand the need for, but these companies get them made.

I totally understand why some people would like the small engineering focused companies who make in their own workshop, and vice versa why others would be happy to buy direct from the far east, then there are lots of companies along the scale in between. Again if riders saw no value in these they simply wouldn't buy the product. Of course market forces will shift and some companies will survive by altering their offering to meet the changing needs of riders and others won't, but I'd say good luck to anyone who is willing to work hard to provide something that people are willing to buy, they are willing to back-up and put their name on the line for and earn themselves a reasonable living in the process.
Last edited by bikebloke on Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:59 am, edited 27 times in total.

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sugarkane
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by sugarkane

Don't forget in the real world.. when you import a product into a first world country from eg farsports you become legally liable for it.. is if you manufactured it with your own hands... somthing Darkinstalls latest Vlog post fails to mention.. if you don't have the required insurance and company structure then simply going to farsports for your 'own' branded wheels is really a very foolish idea...

And istigatrice maybe next year you can grow a pair and come say hello at the Markers market & the TDU I'll even buy you a beer :beerchug: I know what you look like now buddy :mrgreen:

istigatrice
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by istigatrice

Was going to say hi, instead got distracted by some upcycled tyres. Have to say you guys had some cool stuff out. Hope you're back next year/at the next event :beerchug:
I write the weightweenies blog, hope you like it :)

Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)

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