Tubeless Tyre That Will Not Inflate

[dvdslw]

I'm not going to keep this argument up too long but once again you're misinformed. The DA 7800's were a non-tubeless clincher rim with exposed spoke holes and made of traditional aluminum but the 7850's were Tubeless, no spoke holes, and were scandium. I also believe that sealant should be used for puncture protection only, not to seal a leaking tape job or bead.

[kulivontot]

All these arguments were already decided decades ago in the MTB space. Take a look at what happened there.

[dvdslw]

All these arguments were already decided decades ago in the MTB space. Take a look at what happened there.

While you might assume all is the same between mtb and road tubeless the fact is they're quite different due to the increased pressures associated with road tubeless. A poorly taped wheel will have a much easier time staying inflated on a mtb if only inflated to 30-40 psi but increase that pressure to 80-100 psi and air will find a way out. You must also take in to consideration the rim bead shape or hook that must be able to not only hold a tubeless tire on without burping but also be able to withstand the increased pressure of the tire's bead pushing outward at all times? You would think any rim could handle this no problem but like I mentioned earlier, look at American Classic's Road Tubeless or Argent wheels, they are awesome lightweight tubeless wheels that do not work well with some tubeless tires, especially Hutchinson's because the bead is so tight and strong that it actually deforms the wheel when inflated to a riding pressure. I contacted them directly and they said use IRC or Schwalbe only.

A perfect example of what I'm talking about is a set of 2015 Reynolds Assault slg's I recently bought which claimed to be tubeless ready. I brought them home, looked great, couldn't wait to ride them only to have trouble getting them sealed up. Long story short- the finished surface of the inner rim where the tape covers the spoke holes was so uneven and had several seams left from the manufacturing process that the tape would not seal and air would escape once inflated to 40+psi. I tried doing the inflated tube on the wheel overnight trick, re-taped with stans, gorilla tape, etc... nothing worked. Ended up getting a replacement set from Reynolds because they noticed the imperfections only to receive a set that was worse and ended up returning them. That's how I became aware of this issue and that's what happened to the op as well with his Zipp's. He got them sealed up but I'd be willing to bet that some time down the road the tape will fail again and we're back here having a discussion. Hopefully not but more than likely.

[gazzaputt]

The wheelset I have is Zipp Course 30 which are alloy rims not carbon.

New stans tape went on all okay and wheel is now fine. Not loosing much air at all. Past few rides I haven't had to re-inflate.

The tape that cam from Zipp was faulty that was all. Rim itself is perfect.

[kulivontot]

Okay, let me reiterate more clearly.
When tubeless came out for mtb, there was a similar issue of "tubeless specific" rims and tires that would lock in and work without sealant. In the end everybody said "screw that" and just used sealant and rim straps to convert previously tubed only versions to work tubeless, and that's exactly what most people use. Stan's notubes would have no business if your claims about rim beds without spoke holes and without the rim tape was true.

In short:
Your singular bad experience does not outweigh the thousands of people running successful road tubeless on the exact platform you are describing to be garbage. We heard you, I think you're wrong, you think I'm wrong, let's leave it at that.

Op,
It seems you've successfully gotten your wheels to work, let us know if there any additional issues.

[dvdslw]

Your singular bad experience does not outweigh the thousands of people running successful road tubeless on the exact platform you are describing to be garbage. We heard you, I think you're wrong, you think I'm wrong, let's leave it at that.

You're right, looking back over the thread I got a bit carried away, guess I'm still sore about the whole Reynolds fiasco I went through. Glad to hear the op has it all sorted out.

[gazzaputt]

Glad that did the trick for you. I have good bit of experience with road tubeless and can say without a doubt that any rim that requires tape to seal is a conversion or "tubeless ready" which will give the installer some kind of trouble during setup. Not to say it can't be done because most setups today are in fact tubeless ready like those from Reynolds, Dt Swiss, Zipp, Hed, AC, etc... but if anyone wants a true headache free tubeless setup then look for a rim that is "certified road tubeless". With certified road tubeless you get a sealed rim with no exposed spoke holes, no need for rim tape to seal the spoke bed, and an inner rim shape that is designed to help the tire inflate upon installation. Shimano, Campy, Fulcrum, and Easton all offer sealed tubeless rims which usually come at the expense of about a 50-100 gram weight penalty per set but they do it because its a better design and if you factor in that you'll need no tape and less sealant to make it work reliably, the weight evens out in the end. Easton has also released the first sealed Carbon Clinchers in a 38 & 55mm depth which I plan to buy soon if I can decide on a depth.

On another note, the air leak from the valve (if coming from the base) is probably air escaping underneath the tape somewhere around the rim which will find it's way through a spoke hole and ultimately out through the point of least resistance which is the base of the valve stem. I had this same issue with a set of Assaults which is how I became aware of this problem and found that when I pumped up the tire I was actually filling the hollow 41mm deep section of the carbon rim as well because the tape wasn't sealing properly and just think of where the sealant ends up too? You guessed it, if the first bottle of sealant doesn't do the trick what will you do? Add another? So much for keeping the weight down, and you'll hear the sealant sloshing around inside of your rim. I've decided for myself to never buy another tubeless rim that's not sealed, period! Sorry to rain on your parade and a really hope you get it sorted out. If you continue to have issues with your current setup, take a look at American Classic's tubeless tapes. They use a narrow stranded base layer tape underneath their honey tape which appears to be the best solution for a conversion setup. And be sure that the valve stems you got separately from the wheels have the correct contour where they meet the rim, there's several different designs made to interface with different rim shapes.

You were right

[bigfloor]

Had some trouble mounting 'used' Schwalbe Ultremo ZX tubeless tyres on my Fulcrum R1 (non 2wayfit). Ended up going to the gas station and use their tyre pump (which explicitly stated it should not be used to inflate bicycle tyres), set the pump to it's maximum (4 bar), and success !!!
Inflated my tyre in seconds. At home, deflated the tyre again, put some latex in it and inflated it again with my floorpump (sks rennkompressor). Worked lik a charm (the pump at the gasstation pushed the sides of the tyre into the sidewalls of the rim perfectly).


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[gazzaputt]

Leak was due to the faulty tape that came on the wheel.

Stripped all the tape off, replaced and then inflated with an inner tube in there. Left 24hrs then took the tube out. Inflated but valve again leaked. Replaced valve and tightened right down. Inflated gain with latex all good. I hope

[Miller]

After I got frustrated at failing to inflate a tyre with a floor pump, that I'd previously been able to, I got an Airshot as pictured below. You pump it up first then release the air into the wheel with tubeless tyre. It reliably inflates the tyre (not to final pressure), it's very satisfactory.

But before the Airshot arrived I retaped the offending wheel and inflated the tyre as normal with a track pump. The Airshot is more of a nice-to-have than essential, but it does do the business very well.

[gazzaputt]

Leak was due to the faulty tape that came on the wheel.

Stripped all the tape off, replaced and then inflated with an inner tube in there. Left 24hrs then took the tube out. Inflated but valve again leaked. Replaced valve and tightened right down. Inflated gain with latex all good. I hope

Bloody thing. Tubes are the way to go.

[mattr]

What sort of tape was it? I've seen a few tubeless ready wheelsets that come with ordinary rim tape fitted.

Pissed me off having to remove brand new velox cotton tape to fit the stans tape.........
I've also seen plastic rims tapes used, taking them off and throwing them away is a beautiful experience.