Zipp 303 Firecrest Clinchers

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fatbugger
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:34 pm

by fatbugger

I recently bought a demo version 2014 Zipp 303 Firecrest Clincher Wheelset from my LBS (at a substantial discount). After about 2 months / 2000 miles of use, I have started hearing a knocking sound from the front wheel every time I get out of the saddle and crank it up a hill or sprint. When I took it into the bike shop they told me that the front wheel bearings must have come loose and that this is a common occurrence on the Zipp 88/188 hubs. They opened the side caps of both the hubs, pressed in the bearings and put the caps back together by tightening the pre-load bolt. The wheels performed perfectly for about a week/ 300 miles, but the same problem occurred after that. I took it back in and they followed the same routine. Again the wheels were quite for about a week / 250 miles but the same thing occured on my morning ride today. Pressing the bearings every 250 miles seems like a PITA. Is my LBS correctly saying that this is very common or just trying to get away from the problem instead of solving it.

I would really appreciate guidance from forum members.

Cheers.

by Weenie


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FIJIGabe
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Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:07 pm
Location: The Lone Star State

by FIJIGabe

They may not be pressing the bearings in well enough. I had to perform this "maintenance" task on my rear wheels once or twice over the course of 5,000 miles. It isn't difficult to do, just loosen the retaining bolt, turn the caps until tight, then retighten the cover. Takes the whole of 5 minutes, if that.

dvdslw
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:13 am

by dvdslw

The 2015 line of Zipp wheels have newly designed non adjustable hubs in response to all of the complaints with the previous design. I'd call them and see if they offer an upgrade service to the new design?

fatbugger
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:34 pm

by fatbugger

FIJIGabe wrote:They may not be pressing the bearings in well enough. I had to perform this "maintenance" task on my rear wheels once or twice over the course of 5,000 miles. It isn't difficult to do, just loosen the retaining bolt, turn the caps until tight, then retighten the cover. Takes the whole of 5 minutes, if that.


What the LBS told me was that there is a fine line between pressing them well enough and pressing them too much. As per them, if I press them too much then it can cause higher friction loads which may not allow the wheels to spin freely and also wear out the bearings faster. I have no idea how much truth exists in that statement. They may be talking complete rubbish.

fatbugger
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:34 pm

by fatbugger

dvdslw wrote:The 2015 line of Zipp wheels have newly designed non adjustable hubs in response to all of the complaints with the previous design. I'd call them and see if they offer an upgrade service to the new design?


Thanks for the suggestions. I just checked a couple of news articles about the Zipp 77/177 hubs. I am going to check if I can exercise this option.

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FIJIGabe
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Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:07 pm
Location: The Lone Star State

by FIJIGabe

fatbugger wrote:
FIJIGabe wrote:They may not be pressing the bearings in well enough. I had to perform this "maintenance" task on my rear wheels once or twice over the course of 5,000 miles. It isn't difficult to do, just loosen the retaining bolt, turn the caps until tight, then retighten the cover. Takes the whole of 5 minutes, if that.


What the LBS told me was that there is a fine line between pressing them well enough and pressing them too much. As per them, if I press them too much then it can cause higher friction loads which may not allow the wheels to spin freely and also wear out the bearings faster. I have no idea how much truth exists in that statement. They may be talking complete rubbish.


So long as you finger tighten, and don't use some sort of mechanical assistance, you will be fine tightening the end caps as hard as you can. They're screwed on caps with a retaining bolt. If you notice some drag on the wheel, back it out a hair, but I wouldn't worry about this. Does your dealer have a lot of experience with Zipp wheels?

I know people claim these hubs are bad, but I've put 5,000 miles on my 303's and 1,000 on my 404's and other than tightening them as I mentioned, I've never had a problem.

Good luck getting a dealer to give you a trade in deal, but I doubt anyone will do that.

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rmerka
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Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:23 pm
Location: Austin, TX

by rmerka

If the bearings won't stay seated, and there's no fine line in there they should be pressed in until they stop, then simply tell your shop you want to warranty the wheels. Shouldn't be a problem since their only 2 months old. Boom, new wheels.

On the off chance the warranty is invalid because they're demo wheels, which would seem shady to me, then try some loctite 609 (retaining compound NOT the blue stuff) on the outer surface of the bearing where it touches the hub shell. That would probably keep them in place. But honestly the pre-load adjuster is pressing in on the bearing so in order for them to come loose then I would think that that is what is coming out. Maybe the pinch bolt isn't securing the adjuster?

See this --> https://youtu.be/vRBNkp0L2Kc It's really a quite simple design.

fatbugger
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:34 pm

by fatbugger

FIJIGabe wrote:
fatbugger wrote:
FIJIGabe wrote:They may not be pressing the bearings in well enough. I had to perform this "maintenance" task on my rear wheels once or twice over the course of 5,000 miles. It isn't difficult to do, just loosen the retaining bolt, turn the caps until tight, then retighten the cover. Takes the whole of 5 minutes, if that.


What the LBS told me was that there is a fine line between pressing them well enough and pressing them too much. As per them, if I press them too much then it can cause higher friction loads which may not allow the wheels to spin freely and also wear out the bearings faster. I have no idea how much truth exists in that statement. They may be talking complete rubbish.


So long as you finger tighten, and don't use some sort of mechanical assistance, you will be fine tightening the end caps as hard as you can. They're screwed on caps with a retaining bolt. If you notice some drag on the wheel, back it out a hair, but I wouldn't worry about this. Does your dealer have a lot of experience with Zipp wheels?

I know people claim these hubs are bad, but I've put 5,000 miles on my 303's and 1,000 on my 404's and other than tightening them as I mentioned, I've never had a problem.

Good luck getting a dealer to give you a trade in deal, but I doubt anyone will do that.


The shop has been selling Zipp wheels for as long as I have been around (4 years). Though from my last couple of week's experience, I doubt they know what they are talking about.

I will try your suggestion and see if it helps out. Thanks for the comments. Much appreciated.

fatbugger
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:34 pm

by fatbugger

rmerka wrote:If the bearings won't stay seated, and there's no fine line in there they should be pressed in until they stop, then simply tell your shop you want to warranty the wheels. Shouldn't be a problem since their only 2 months old. Boom, new wheels.

On the off chance the warranty is invalid because they're demo wheels, which would seem shady to me, then try some loctite 609 (retaining compound NOT the blue stuff) on the outer surface of the bearing where it touches the hub shell. That would probably keep them in place. But honestly the pre-load adjuster is pressing in on the bearing so in order for them to come loose then I would think that that is what is coming out. Maybe the pinch bolt isn't securing the adjuster?

See this --> https://youtu.be/vRBNkp0L2Kc It's really a quite simple design.


I will check with the shop regarding warranty today.

Thanks a bunch for the video link. Going to try this myself.

fatbugger
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:34 pm

by fatbugger

Does anyone know if the bearing pre-load can be manipulated by the user on the new 77/177 hubs?

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FIJIGabe
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by FIJIGabe

fatbugger wrote:Does anyone know if the bearing pre-load can be manipulated by the user on the new 77/177 hubs?


No, that's the point of the new hubs. No pre-load adjustments.

fatbugger
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:34 pm

by fatbugger

FIJIGabe wrote:
fatbugger wrote:Does anyone know if the bearing pre-load can be manipulated by the user on the new 77/177 hubs?


No, that's the point of the new hubs. No pre-load adjustments.

Understood. Thanks.

fatbugger
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:34 pm

by fatbugger

Update: The LBS was able to get the hubs replaced under warranty. Zipp relaced the wheels to new hubs albeit the same old 88/188 version. I received the relaced wheels last evening and haven't had a chance to ride them yet. The packing slip that was included in the wheel box said that there was some kind of cracked shim in both the hubs and hence the existing 88/188 V7 hubs were replaced with new 88/188 V9 hubs under warranty. Does anyone know what this 'V7' and 'V9' stand for?

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FIJIGabe
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Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:07 pm
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by FIJIGabe

That's the version of the hub. V7 is the 2013 version of the hub. You can look at the Zipp hub timeline, here: http://www.zipp.com/support/identify/hub_timeline.php.

It looks to me like your bike shop sold you some old rims (which I hope you knew before you bought them). It's good that Zipp swapped out the hubs. I prefer the V9's, especially in the rear, since they are much stiffer. Zipp went from radially lacing the drive side to a 2x system, matching the NDS.

fatbugger
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:34 pm

by fatbugger

FIJIGabe wrote:That's the version of the hub. V7 is the 2013 version of the hub. You can look at the Zipp hub timeline, here: http://www.zipp.com/support/identify/hub_timeline.php.

It looks to me like your bike shop sold you some old rims (which I hope you knew before you bought them). It's good that Zipp swapped out the hubs. I prefer the V9's, especially in the rear, since they are much stiffer. Zipp went from radially lacing the drive side to a 2x system, matching the NDS.


Thanks for posting the link. I had figured it was somehow a version of the hub. I did go back to my LBS and gave them a piece of my mind. Thankfully they were able to get the hubs swapped under warranty for no cost to me.

I was hoping that Zipp will swap these out for the latest 77/177 hubs. Well something's better than nothing. I will take these for the first ride today. Hopefully these won't have any issues.

by Weenie


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