Building a set of wheels, using Mavic GL330 rims.

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

User avatar
ergott
Posts: 2870
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:03 am
Location: Islip, NY
Contact:

by ergott

F45 wrote:I wasn't talking about the stiffness of the overall wheel. With 32 spokes the wheel will be very stiff.


Not true. The problem with very light alloy rims is the lack of rim stiffness. That means the spokes don't all share the load well. Take a look at this article.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Debunkin ... _3449.html

A wheel as described above will only have a portion of spokes resist lateral wheel flex since a noodly rim doesn't transfer the loads to the rest of them. Compound that with light gauge spokes and the wheel isn't stiff at all particularly when those light gauge spokes are used on the right side of the rear wheel. You have poor bracing angles on that side. It's the trifecta of flexy spokes, flexy rim, and poor bracing angles.

When I built up my Mavic GP4s I used ALchemy hubs since they have the best bracing angles. I still used Sapim Race spokes for the right, rear even thought the rest are Lasers. That is a pretty stiff wheelset, but still doesn't compare either my carbon wheels or even my Pacenti SL23 wheels. The Pacenti rims are much stiffer than any of the box rims we have discussed so far. Same can be said for Hed C2, H+Son Archetypes, or any of the wider rims made today.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 5777
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

ergot is spot on. F45 If you build a number of wheels (rear) with the same hub, spokes (sapim race) and spoke count you will find a huge difference in wheel stiffness.

If you drop spoke count it make some difference to wheel stiffness but not a huge amount. Similarly spoke gauge make a difference but the rim stiffness and bracing angles are the most important factor in lateral stiffness. For radial stiffness it is the rim alone that dicates that (spoke almost make no difference unless the rim is extremely stiff it the way the maths works out). For torsional stiffness, spoke guage, rim stiffness and flange diameter all play a role but torsional stiffness in any crossed wheel is always high high enough to cope with pedaling torque.

So the rim is lighter than many but they make O.K wheel so long as you are not expecting performance. I think they are best used on fixed gear hubs where the bracing angles can be very good.

GL330 rim with 32 spoke on any geared hub is not going to be a stiff build (maybe an old 7 speed shimano hub would be O.K). It maybe perfectly fine to ride but that is not my point.

User avatar
F45
Posts: 1077
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am

by F45

I see. My error was in thinking that a high spoke count would increase lateral stiffness, but in reality the rim stiffness and bracing angles have a much greater effect (as you stated).

DolanDriver
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:14 pm

by DolanDriver

I am building a set of H plus Son TB14s for a Colnago C40 rebuild. These will be the main wheel I will use while riding this bike. I am also considering doing up a second set of wheels for this bike. A set of light climbing wheels for the occasional spin on very hilly days. I am considering the Mavic GL330, 28 H front and 32 H rear. I weigh 155lbs, according to the digital scales at the gym! Are these rims at this spoke count OK for my weight, combined with 22 or 23c tubulars? The bike won't be raced, just taken out on dry days for the sheer pleasure of riding a C40. Thanks.



Dolan Driver.

spdntrxi
Posts: 5794
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

F45 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:24 am
I wouldn't waste my time with them unless I was totally broke. 350g isn't light, 32 spokes is too many, and they are too noodly.
this exactly
2024 BMC TeamMachine R Building
2018 BMC TImeMachine Road
2002 Moots Compact-SL- getting aero look makeover
2019 Parlee Z0XD - "classified"
2023 Pivot E-Vault - completed project, full Xplr package

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

It'll probably work. Could be a fun project to explore wheelbuilding, if you have the time and interest.

But if you want to really let that c40 shine why not put some nice more modern campagnolo alloy wheels on? Below 1300-1400gr alloy wheelsets deteriorate real fast. So I'd pick up something around the 1400gr mark.

DolanDriver
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:14 pm

by DolanDriver

Apologies. My previous post was poorly worded! When I say "I am building....." I mean I am getting the LBS to build them. The idea behind getting a set of GL330s built is to replicate the feel of the wheelsets used by climbers in the 1990's and 2000's in the grand tours. Yes, they certainly aren't a modern wheelset by any means but are relatively light. Popovych used 28H Ambrosio Cronos in the 2003 and 2004 Giro so would be cool to ride similar.

DD.

spdntrxi
Posts: 5794
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

if you are light.. get some GEL280 28h
2024 BMC TeamMachine R Building
2018 BMC TImeMachine Road
2002 Moots Compact-SL- getting aero look makeover
2019 Parlee Z0XD - "classified"
2023 Pivot E-Vault - completed project, full Xplr package

DolanDriver
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:14 pm

by DolanDriver

155 lbs so might be too heavy for 280s! Certainly 28H.

DD.

spdntrxi
Posts: 5794
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

DolanDriver wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:21 pm
155 lbs so might be too heavy for 280s! Certainly 28H.

DD.
yeah I missed the part where the op want to build into modern 11sp spec dish .. he's better off not using Gel280/330. I have gel280 28h with campy hubs and mavic SSC 32h and 28h mavic and campy hubs on vintage 7 speed builds. I'm 85kg. Did Eroica on my SSC 32h set.. lots of light gravel and rough roads.. no issues
2024 BMC TeamMachine R Building
2018 BMC TImeMachine Road
2002 Moots Compact-SL- getting aero look makeover
2019 Parlee Z0XD - "classified"
2023 Pivot E-Vault - completed project, full Xplr package

mikemelbrooks
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:58 pm

by mikemelbrooks

I had a pair of 24 hole CX 18s (325gms) the front wheel folded like a pringle during a hill climb, I really should have walked the course as there was a cobbled section!😣

User avatar
WhereIsAlexiGrewal84
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:45 am
Location: Chicago IL

by WhereIsAlexiGrewal84

DolanDriver wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:21 pm
155 lbs so might be too heavy for 280s! Certainly 28H.

DD.
I used to have a set of GEL 280's that I used for race wheels. They were laced up to 36 spoke hubs and they were fine. I used to weigh about the same as you.

They might actually be hidden somewhere in my basement. Maybe someday I will go through all my old stuff and find them :)

Although that was in the 1980's - I don't think anybody was still riding GEL 280's or GL330's anymore beyond the early 90's. Nobody had switched to deep section carbon rims yet either, except the GEL and GL rims were already old designs by then. You're correct that everybody was still running box section aluminum rims, but I am guessing they were more modern than the GEL and GL rims. Although I couldn't tell you what model rims they were actually using. Does anybody know?

I remember Jan Ullrich being one of the first people to start running carbon rims all the time, even in the mountains, and that was the really late 90's (like maybe 1999).

Image

DolanDriver
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:14 pm

by DolanDriver

Yea, a set of GL330s are probably wheels that were used prior to the arrival of the C40 into the peloton but they will build into a light wheel. Yaroslav Popovych was using 28 hole Ambrosio F20 Cronos in 2003 and 2004 during the mountain stages on his Colnagos so the GL330s should come in at a similar weight. I am just curious to see how these wheels will ride on a long climb compared to a heavier set of box section rims.

Will have to wait till the dreaded Coronavirus is gone before this build will be completed and on the road. I can wait.

DolanDriver.

User avatar
WhereIsAlexiGrewal84
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:45 am
Location: Chicago IL

by WhereIsAlexiGrewal84

DolanDriver wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:19 pm
Yea, a set of GL330s are probably wheels that were used prior to the arrival of the C40 into the peloton but they will build into a light wheel. Yaroslav Popovych was using 28 hole Ambrosio F20 Cronos in 2003 and 2004 during the mountain stages on his Colnagos so the GL330s should come in at a similar weight. I am just curious to see how these wheels will ride on a long climb compared to a heavier set of box section rims.

Will have to wait till the dreaded Coronavirus is gone before this build will be completed and on the road. I can wait.
Sounds good :thumbup:

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply