Carbon spokes VS stainless steel

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Stefano
Posts: 295
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:24 am
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

by Stefano

I think another reason carbon spokes tend to be thicker is because it's hard to tension them, meaning they have to handle compression loads sometimes, which means thicker spokes.

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Derf
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:23 pm

by Derf

kgt wrote:Take a look at RouesArtisanales tests and you might change your mind. Inertia, stiffness to weight and absolute stiffness are much better on most full carbon wheels. Aerodynamics are not the best but not that bad either.

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-53429013.html
http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-15441821.html


0-30 Km/h matters to me in 2 races: 1k and 4k pursuit on the track. Then I keep caring all the way to top speed, which sure as heck isn't 30km/h. Those are the very two event that I aim to run twin discs in, as that is far and away the fastest combination.

The carbon spoked wheels in the test require more power to get from 30km/h to 55km/h (if I need an acceleration that isn't uphill this is it, if it's an uphill acceleration, I'm governed by my body weight). They may be lighter and marginally lower inertia (as I stated originally), but worse aerodynamically, so total energy spent accelerating once at speed is worse. Plus, how well validated are the rouesartisanales tests?

I'm totally the wrong audience for carbon spokes. Stiffness is largely overblown (see Mavic's tests about riders not really being able to tell), weight is largely overblown (I'll take what I can get, but it's a very small advantage), aerodynamics are more important than the latter two, but advantages among general peers is pretty small. Cost, durability, and ease of use are important, but rarely discussed in these matters--and all gigantic losses for carbon spoked wheels.

Carbon spokes are a gimmick designed to meet an aesthetic. And, as Eric writes, I cannot build one up (easily) in my garage like I can almost any stainless steel spoked wheel.

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kgt
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

I respect your pov but your translation of the tests is not that exact IMHO.

The test clearly states that 0-30 Km/h equals the energy required to get from 40km/h to 50km/h. In any case the test takes as granted that a lighter full carbon wheel will accelerate faster and brake sooner.
In terms of aerodynamics you claim that full carbon wheelset are the worst is also wrong. Some wheels (see LWs) have pretty good aerodynamics according to the test and other tests (see Tour).
Rigidity-Stiffness is something you think does not matter at all but I don't agree either. Torsional stiffness of the wheels is very important to how a bike handles, responds, turns etc.
Weight does not matter that much for you as well...

So your claim that carbon spokes are just "a gimmick designed to meet an aesthetic" is not well founded at all.

Derf
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:23 pm

by Derf

Perhaps this is too much opinion, but if I'm spending carbon-spoked wheels money, I'm sure as heck wanting to have the fastest wheels on the planet. They certainly look cool and are plenty quick all-around, but the fastest option, they are not.

Where do they show clear advantage over (the infinitely easier to work with) competing stainless spoked wheels (Enve, Zipp, Reynolds, etc) that justifies their incremental cost over already very expensive wheels? What are you buying? A slightly lighter wheel with poorer aerodynamics (at most about 200g for around 2000 USD). Bling by all appearances.

sawyer
Posts: 4485
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

Derf wrote:Perhaps this is too much opinion, but if I'm spending carbon-spoked wheels money, I'm sure as heck wanting to have the fastest wheels on the planet. They certainly look cool and are plenty quick all-around, but the fastest option, they are not.

Where do they show clear advantage over (the infinitely easier to work with) competing stainless spoked wheels (Enve, Zipp, Reynolds, etc) that justifies their incremental cost over already very expensive wheels? What are you buying? A slightly lighter wheel with poorer aerodynamics (at most about 200g for around 2000 USD). Bling by all appearances.



Yeah, if you compare Bora One 35s <1200g and c1400 euros with LWs it's pretty hard to justify the additional cost. In fact even if they were the same price I'd take the Boras (better hubs, wider rims, IMO look better, more durable) ...
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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

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