Rim Tape on Carbon Clinchers

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fogman
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by fogman

I happened to be reading the warning sheet that came with my Continental GP4000S II clincher tires. I will be mounting them on Campagnolo Bora One 35 Clinchers. I usually discard this sheet and just mount the tires.

Basically it warns against using latex or lightweight butyl tubes and recommends using rim tape even if there are no spoke holes drilled in the rim bed. Continental claims the rim strip acts an insulating layer and helps to keep the inner tube cool. I would think the rim bed would not be as susceptible to heat retention as the sidewalls of the rim. I am not an engineer but am thinking this is overkill and unnecessary.

There is also a section on recommended braking technique.

Additionally Continental advises using the ETRTO guidelines for tire-rim compatibility, so a 23mm clincher would technically be incompatible with a 17c Bora rim. I am thinking of going against this advice and still use a 23mm clincher due to frame clearance issues.

Any thoughts or comments on this, particularly the rim tape? I was not planning on using latex or lightweight butyl tubes anyway. Here is a link to the warning sheet:

https://www.conti-online.com/www/downlo ... notice.pdf
It's all downhill from here, except for the uphills.

eric
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by eric

I have used 2 layers of 2mil Kapton tape as a rim strip. This is on rims that need a strip. It works well. Being thin makes it easier to mount tires than with the typical woven plastic strips (which I have also used on carbon clinchers). The tube isn't touching the side walls of the rim as the tire is in the way. It's main contact with the rim is the bed. CF does not conduct heat well but there is probably some that makes it from the brake track to the bed. Whatever heat does go there won't be convected away to air like with exterior parts of the rim.

I have used Vittoria latex tubes with Conti tires with no problem (yet), even on steep twisty descents that are at the limit of what I'll do on carbon clinchers. But I'm not heavy, I'm a confident descender and I'm good about braking hard and infrequently.

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Timujin
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by Timujin

ive ordered latex tubes for my bora ultra clinchers too, will let you know how i get on... and its hot here too

Timujin
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:43 pm

by Timujin

Yep, no rim tape included. Let's see how this develops... Will be out at the wkd. Running vittoria open corsa III with challenge latex tubes


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fogman
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by fogman

I sent an email to Campagnolo North America and their response was that rim strips were not necessary on their high end wheels. They explained that the added thickness of the rim strip makes mounting and removal of the tire difficult due to the tire bead being too tight between the crochet hook and the rim bed strip.

This is a contradiction to Continental's warning notice. These conflicting recommendations from the wheel and tire manufacturers can be very confusing to the consumer. Both are reputable companies in my opinion and both have valid points.
It's all downhill from here, except for the uphills.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Rim strips can make mounting clinchers a little tough. Especially with Campy rims in general. On the other hand, Continental's warning is not completely without merit either. I still don't like carbon clinchers for the heat and safety issues and more importantly the handling characteristics compared to a good tubular. But there is a huge market for them mostly cuz they look cool. There would be no market for them if performance alone was the criteria... they would all be carbon Tubulars. But the market just isn't as big for Tubulars. Not even close. So... not wanting to lose out on big dollars available from carbon clinchers the manufacturers make them because they can sell them. Lots of them. $$$$
Just use common sense and you'll be fine. The reputable carbon clinchers available today seem to be a lot more reliable than those from 2010, probably the worst year for failures before they started 1) adding back some material, 2) developing more heat resistant resins and 3) coming up with so much better brake pad compounds than were available back then.
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fogman
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by fogman

The reason I decided to get the Bora Ones in both the tubular 50 and clincher 35 version is because I wanted the convenience of wheel changes without the hassle of changing brake pads and adjusting brake width every time I change wheels. I am planning on using the clinchers for training and the tubulars for race day. But the Bora One 50 tubulars are so nice...........
It's all downhill from here, except for the uphills.

fogman
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by fogman

Update:

I have been using my Bora One 35 clinchers since June 2015 without rim tape for a few thousand miles. I have them mounted with Vredestein Fortezza Senso All Weather 25c tires and butyl tubes. No heat related problems so far with the red Campagnolo pads. I have not used them on steep, technical, mountainous descents yet. Mostly rolling terrain with some mile long descents. Also, I use the recommended intermittent braking technique as much as possible.

My unscientific field test was to feel the rim with my fingers after coming to a stop after longer descents. My subjective conclusion was that in most instances the rim felt warm to the touch and occasionally hot (but not enough to be painful).
It's all downhill from here, except for the uphills.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

It's only painful when the tire blows off.
The scenarios you describe (nothing steep or technical, and only a mile long) shouldn't pose any problems at all however.
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gmakris
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by gmakris

I was thinking to replace the fabric rim tape from my carbon clinchers with stans tape which is used for converting clincher mtb to tubeless. The weight savings could 60grams for the pair. What is your opinion?

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FIJIGabe
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by FIJIGabe

I used to run my 303's tubeless, and then went back to regular clinchers. The Stan's tape worked out fine, and always gave me the option of going back.

Zigmeister
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by Zigmeister

I use veloplugs on my carbon clinchers. Total weight about 4gms for each wheel. Work perfectly fine, never had an issue.

Of course, with no holes in the rims in your circumstance...not sure what they are thinking??? If the surface is smooth, so what, why put 75gms of weight on your outer wheel?

Just try some regular butyl tubes, see how it goes.

Point being, if I can run velo plugs and tubs right on the carbon inner surface, except where the plugs cover the holes, why would you want a bunch of tape on your rim then?

fogman
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by fogman

Continental is claiming the rim tape acts as an insulation layer between the rim and the tube to protect from heat generated by braking. I always thought that rim tape was to cover the spoke holes.
It's all downhill from here, except for the uphills.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

It is to cover the spoke holes (at least for clinchers). Otherwise the inner tube would expand into those holes and pop. I suppose there's some merit to the insulation properties that continental is talking about but they are also trying to make it as safe as possible. Lots of rims don't have spoke holes anymore so using a run tape may help with heat raft next to a clincher innertube. Another reason tubulars are much safer, having their tubes completely encased. On a clincher I would be more concerned with how round the bead hook is on a carbon clincher than anything, since unfinished carbon can be extremely sharp and cut into the edge of a clincher.
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gmakris
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:36 am

by gmakris

I did the conversion to my Ritchey carbon clinchers today...total savings both wheels is 20gr - not much...at least it is tubeless ready now
I use Continental supersonic inner tubes (50gr each) and Shcwalbe one so it is a "agreesive" setup....

I will report back if any issues...

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