p & k lie truing (wheel building) stand.

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8612
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

ergott wrote:I takes me over an hour to build a wheel. Greasing every nipple and thread, straightening spoke line, bedding spokes into hub, and stress relieving a wheel should not be rushed.

+1... I don't build wheels professionally like @Ergott, but I'm quite proud of the wheels I do build, taking care in each of the steps above and getting the tension as optimally tight and even as possible. Takes me awhile for sure but the result is worth it IMO. I too am always impressed by fine tools of the trade, but for wheel building, it truly is the builder that will make the difference.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

nyanyin
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 9:27 pm

by nyanyin

the issue is shifting.
i Greasing every nipple and thread, straightening spoke line, bedding spokes into hub, and stress relieving a wheel
I want to know that stand is best for you.
Using Tapatalk

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8612
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Well, I have the Park TS-2 stand. And a VAR dishing tool. And some nice spoke wrenches etc. And some time and patience. Works for me.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

User avatar
sugarkane
in the industry
Posts: 1797
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:14 am
Location: SYD
Contact:

by sugarkane

It takes me an hour and a half to two hours to build a wheel with nice even tension. I'm no where near as experienced as ergott and only build quite expensive wheels for people so qauitity of the end product is the most important thing. I wouldn't pay nor expect some one to pay $1400 plus for a set of wheels banged together in less than 2 hours

User avatar
ergott
Posts: 2870
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:03 am
Location: Islip, NY
Contact:

by ergott

I started out with this one. I added the gauges and roller tips. I definitely didn't pay the price of the premium stands mentioned so far.

Image

Then I got this. It was a stand used by another local wheel builder who passed away. Nothing made today compares to the ease of use of that bike gauge. Resolution still down to 0.1mm (0.01mm is worthless for a bicycle rim). The larger sweep of the dial means I can get a rim in shape much easier than I could with the small gauges. The giant bearings that sit on the rim spin smoothly and there's less bounce which small gauges are prone to do if you spin the wheel too fast. Finally since it's a standalone (and weighs over 200lbs) I have a solid platform for stress relieving, straightening spoke line, and applying tubeless rim tape. I can put tension on the tape easily by sticking a drumstick between the stand and the wheel (by the nipple) as I work the tape down into the center channel of the rim. Find that and old sweater on my finger tips keeps my fingers from getting any friction burn from the tape and I can smooth the tape without marring it.

Image

User avatar
sugarkane
in the industry
Posts: 1797
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:14 am
Location: SYD
Contact:

by sugarkane

That thing is a monster!! Love the ts-1 too they are really nice and a desirable thing

nyanyin
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 9:27 pm

by nyanyin

sugarkane wrote:I wouldn't pay nor expect some one to pay $1400 plus for a set of wheels banged together in less than 2 hours

more time is not better
Using Tapatalk

Infamous
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:38 pm

by Infamous

nyanyin wrote:the issue is shifting.
i Greasing every nipple and thread, straightening spoke line, bedding spokes into hub, and stress relieving a wheel
I want to know that stand is best for you.


Yes, I have the P&K and it is better and faster than any stand I have used in the past. Once you get used to how it works it will cut the actual truing time in half but it will not make the rest of the steps quicker. The Special 250 is supposed to be even faster when truing because of the added resolution but having used the regular I don't think it would make enough of difference for the added cost.

There are things that are not perfect with the P&K. I would have liked to see a different clamping mechanism that holds the axle. The current system works but is a little award to use and could be made better and faster. The centering process could also be changed to make it a little quicker, it works perfectly but just could be easier.

nyanyin
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 9:27 pm

by nyanyin

Infamous wrote:
nyanyin wrote:the issue is shifting.
i Greasing every nipple and thread, straightening spoke line, bedding spokes into hub, and stress relieving a wheel
I want to know that stand is best for you.


Yes, I have the P&K and it is better and faster than any stand I have used in the past. Once you get used to how it works it will cut the actual truing time in half but it will not make the rest of the steps quicker. The Special 250 is supposed to be even faster when truing because of the added resolution but having used the regular I don't think it would make enough of difference for the added cost.

There are things that are not perfect with the P&K. I would have liked to see a different clamping mechanism that holds the axle. The current system works but is a little award to use and could be made better and faster. The centering process could also be changed to make it a little quicker, it works perfectly but just could be easier.


You think it's a good buy?
Using Tapatalk

Infamous
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:38 pm

by Infamous

nyanyin wrote:You think it's a good buy?


If you are not a pro builder doing lots of wheels then it is not a good buy but it does not mean that you can't afford it and should not buy it. If you can afford it and want it, buy it and it doesn't matter if other think it it overpriced and not worth it. Even when not using it people will want to talk to you about it because it is a show piece and much larger than the pictures make it look.

This stand is like the Ferrari vs Corvette debate. A Corvette will do 95% of everything as good as a Ferrari but costs half as much. Based on the numbers nobody should every buy a Ferrari or any supercar for that matter but it doesn't stop people that can afford them from buying them.


User avatar
ergott
Posts: 2870
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:03 am
Location: Islip, NY
Contact:

by ergott

Image

The P&K stand was created to speed the building of high end wheels. To build quickly, besides experience, one really needs X and Y information at once. By that I mean, radial and lateral rim runout. Jon and I imported one of (if not the) first Villum truing stands to the US in 1981. This behemoth Danish fixture cost $4,000 and weighed 400lbs. It was every bit worth it because it speeded (sic) you up.

Much of Wheelsmith’s huge success with wheelbuilding in the 1975-2005 era was owed to these amazing stands. They’re no longer available (besides being impractically large and expensive). P&K Lie delivers the SAME huge shortcut and that translates to speed.


That's the same model I'm using. Surprised there aren't more pics of them around. I hope others are still in existence.

The dials only show 160° of sweep (like a car speedometer). At the outside edges, they read in millimeters. But approaching the center, accuracy rockets. The Standard05 stand reads in 0.05 millimeters at the center. This is bombshell effective. Now you can use a dial indicator from the very beginning of a wheelbuild.


This is excellent. I didn't realize the dials had this feature.

nyanyin
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 9:27 pm

by nyanyin

thanks ergott,
it seemed to me that's a good thing these fantastic dials.
Using Tapatalk

Post Reply