Stiff Custom Build - Component Selection Help

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atakaoka
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by atakaoka

I recomend you to try fulcrun racing speed 50 and 35.
cycling,a great individual sport,were you can't reach anything,whithout group effort.

Slagter
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by Slagter

Fixie82 wrote:Eric - great little summary. At this stage I fairly certain the builds will be as follows:

50/60mm U Shape 23mm wide carbon rims/White Industries T11 32 Rear 28 Front/Sapim CX-Ray front spokes/Sapim Laser RNDS/Sapim Race RDS.

30/40mm U Shape 23mm wide carbon rims/White Industries T11 32 Rear 28 Front/Sapim CX-Ray front spokes/Sapim Laser RNDS/Sapim Race RDS.

Going for a larger spoke count simply as I would like to err towards stiffer than not stiff enough. Also depending on pricing may simply switch the Lasers out for CX-Ray's and run the Race's for the RDS.

Now what about lacing patterns? Radial front? 2x or 3x rear? Brass or aluminium nipples?

Getting a little excited now


If you are building with high profile carbon rims, you don't need a high spokecount. 24/28 should be more than enough, since the rims themselves are plenty stiff. You could even go 20/24 with your weight.

Second; it doesnt really make sense not to use aerodynamic spokes when you use u shaped aero rims.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if you are building race wheels, you might as wheel make them raceworthy all they way through.

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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Again as above with deep section rims like this a high spoke count is pointless as you are making the wheels less aero.

If you go with u shaped rims use deeper one 50mm or 60mm and 20F/24R with CX-rays. If you want sensible pick a higher spoke count, round spokes and a alloy rim. You need to decide if the wheels are for racing or for training. A training wheel is a different animal to a racing wheel. Racing wheels are meant to be high performance and scarfice all notions of being sensible. Training wheels are meant to be mile munchers and for me I would want them to be able to do very high miles without a spoke breakage.

So if you are after two handbuilt wheelsets, get a high performance carbon set and a higher spoke count alloy set for training. Try not to mix the two as you end up with comprimises.

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fa63
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by fa63

I weigh around 100 kg most of the year, and use a custom wheel set built with Reynolds 46 rims, T11 hubs, 20f/24r with CX-Ray spokes in the front (radial lacing) and DT Comp spokes in the back (2x lacing). I rate these wheels very highly; plenty stiff and responsive and I imagine a similar build would suit you well also. There is a bit of a weight penalty (mine weigh around 1,570 g if I remember correctly) though.

eric
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by eric

I'll agree with the other guys that 32h is not needed on deep section rims. 24/28 would be a serious clydesdale build for 50mm deep rims, 28/32 is overkill. The rim provides a lot of the stiffness of the wheel. And the rim stiffness increases a lot with larger cross section.

I agree with the recommendation for CX-rays on an aero wheel build.

I also agree with the recommendation for cheaper aluminium rims for training. My training wheels are XR270s or BHS wide rims on BHS hubs laced with round Sapims. Carbon clinchers can overheat if you do steep technical descents (or brake a lot). We have some real steep tight ones here that I won't use carbon clinchers on. Unless your racing involves a lot of uphill-only races I'd get one race wheel set with carbon 50-60mm rims laced 20/24 and the other a cheaper aluminium training set with more spokes.

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Fixie82
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by Fixie82

Has been a while but I've been plotting and scheming with wheels. The information, recommendations and pointers provided were very helpful. I went away, thought about what I needed and what was best for that rather than what I wanted and came up with the first set of wheels. Took a while to get organised but came together in the end and I'm loving them. This is an everyday set of wheels, with a Kappius 1.5 road hub in the rear, a Speedway front which is sold by Shifter Bikes in Melbourne, laced to 31mm alloy rims. The rims are 24mm wide, tubeless ready and weigh in around 485g mark. From what Dan at Shifterbikes was saying I believe these are BHS rims?. They are laced up with Sapim CX-Rays and brass nipples in a 2x patten for both wheels. 24 Spokes front and 28 rear.

Had them on 3-4 rides now and love them, they roll very, very well. The wider rim is great for cornering and comfort so far even with just 23mm tyres on. They are quite stiff, I can't get brake rub on the hills yet and their first outing was a Crit win with no issues. Going to take some time to get used to the freehub noise but the lack of friction is quite unbelievable.

All in all a big thanks to everyone for setting me on the right path. Very stoked so far.

Weight given from Dan is 1615 for the set including tape. Not super light but good enough.

ImageImageImageImage

stormur
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by stormur

eric wrote:There is an aero advantage and if I remember right it's not insignificant compared to other aero factors in wheels.


Really ? Any reliable proof ?

Zipp publications you can skip - totally unreliable.

Any mathematician can calculate for you "frontal" area diffrence in mm2 between bladed and non bladed spokes ( DT aerolite vs DT Rev's f.e. ) , also can easy calculate drag of both with yaw 0 degrees and yaw 15 degrees ( condidering side area of bladed spokes ) . You'll be very susprised :mrgreen: thicker bar tape make more difference :)

BTW : 28 spokes on 50-60mm carbon rims ? On front ? Why ?

I would understand easy 28 spokes on front on 30-38mm cf rims for wheels intended for cyclocross, but 50mm & road …?
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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Your point is valid stormur. November cycles did a test with a wheelset built with cxrays and one with lasers. At 30mph the difference 1.8 watts. Real but not going win me a race is it.

Courant
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by Courant

There's a reason mathematicians don't design aeroplanes! (The difference in drag between two objects is not just the difference between frontal/wetted area...)

The drag difference in the November Cycles test neglects the more significant aero losses, which is not the translational drag (which they measure) rather it's the rotational drag (i.e. the spin-up power).

Yes, it's not a huge difference, but watts are watts...

Slagter
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by Slagter

stormur wrote:
Any mathematician can calculate for you "frontal" area diffrence in mm2 between bladed and non bladed spokes ( DT aerolite vs DT Rev's f.e. ) , also can easy calculate drag of both with yaw 0 degrees and yaw 15 degrees ( condidering side area of bladed spokes ) . You'll be very susprised :mrgreen: thicker bar tape make more difference :)



As mentioned, it's not just a question of area. It's a question of aero benefit with a rotating body. How will you calculate the frontal area of a rounded spoke?

It's a question of how the spokes cut through the wind at different yaw angles. That said, the difference between rounded and bladed spokes is very little. I read somewhere, that it was less than 1 watt. Maybe it's as much as 1.8. Not much but still something. Latex tubes saves you about 4 watts a wheel. Clean and well lubed chain, cassette, pulley wheels and chainrings saves you about 4.5 watts. It all adds up....

When you are racing and on the rivet, you definitely will be thinking about those 1.8 watts and blaming your spokes for your hard work...

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Most people who have aero spoked wheels dont race. For racing the gains do add up and on that point i must swap in latex tubes for the next road race.

The gains add up but it is wasted if your position is not ideal.

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