Please advice: Enve 6.7 SES or Zipp 404 Firestrike

[Vallinotti]

Hello folks,

Im about to buy a new wheelset and I have some doubt which one I buy. Please let me know your thoughts.

thanks

[harmonix1234]

Enve, hands down.
I am on my second set of zipps now and regret not getting enve.
For starters, the quality of the moulding.
Straight out of the box my zipps had little divets and rough striations along the outer walls. Enough you could get your fingernail in and flick the edges of the carbon.
The finish is abysmal.
Second, the pieces of bladder left in the rim rattle around inside it. Cheap manufacturing with bling marketing.
Third, hubs and lacing patterns. The Zipp has non drive side crossed and drive side straight pull. This is why my Zipp hub flanges have been breaking off like snapping of a row of chocolate.
Yep, sheared straight off and my wheel jammed in my frame and I was lucky I was only going slow.
After googling 'zipp hub flange failure' I saw that hundreds of other people have had this. Mine were only a few months old.
Watch the YouTube vid of the enve manufacturing process and look at how well they are moulded, look at the quality control.
Another thing about the zipps, there is no quality control. And it's even worse now they got bought by SRAM.
Straight out of the box my first sets problems were:
A) the bladed spokes on the back wheel, some if them were actually facing at 90deg to each other, like two knife edges rubbing.
B) the wheel was incorrectly dished do hard to one side I couldn't actually mount the wheel with a tyre as it hit the frame and required a complete rebuild before I even used it.
C) when my lbs was rebuilding the wheel, they noticed that there was no grease in the hubs, anywhere. Looks like it slipped through the process somehow without getting grease installed. Lbs fixed that.
What am I up to? Oh yeah, D) the wheel was buckled out if the box.
I have purchased cheap machine built wheels off eBay that were truer.
E) wheels wasn't round either, and spoke tension was so irregular the difference in pitch acoustically was two whole tones (4 semitones), in tension that is the equivalent of about three whole turns of a nipple.
Also, the soft freehubs get chewed out real quick. I went through two freehubs in just a few weeks and ended up having to solve the problem by purchasing a really cheap and heavy Tiagra cassette because it was the only one that had rivets going all the way though and stopping the cogs chewing up the hub.
I have had more problems too but won't mention them here.
My second set of zipps (Zipp 60) have been fine after a year, but I only have these as Zipp offered them to me as a replacement for my originals that I had all the problems with.
Wish I went enve, the enve carbon is so much higher quality.

[Vallinotti]

Enve, hands down.
I am on my second set of zipps now and regret not getting enve.
For starters, the quality of the moulding.
Straight out of the box my zipps had little divets and rough striations along the outer walls. Enough you could get your fingernail in and flick the edges of the carbon.
The finish is abysmal.
Second, the pieces of bladder left in the rim rattle around inside it. Cheap manufacturing with bling marketing.
Third, hubs and lacing patterns. The Zipp has non drive side crossed and drive side straight pull. This is why my Zipp hub flanges have been breaking off like snapping of a row of chocolate.
Yep, sheared straight off and my wheel jammed in my frame and I was lucky I was only going slow.
After googling 'zipp hub flange failure' I saw that hundreds of other people have had this. Mine were only a few months old.
Watch the YouTube vid of the enve manufacturing process and look at how well they are moulded, look at the quality control.
Another thing about the zipps, there is no quality control. And it's even worse now they got bought by SRAM.
Straight out of the box my first sets problems were:
A) the bladed spokes on the back wheel, some if them were actually facing at 90deg to each other, like two knife edges rubbing.
B) the wheel was incorrectly dished do hard to one side I couldn't actually mount the wheel with a tyre as it hit the frame and required a complete rebuild before I even used it.
C) when my lbs was rebuilding the wheel, they noticed that there was no grease in the hubs, anywhere. Looks like it slipped through the process somehow without getting grease installed. Lbs fixed that.
What am I up to? Oh yeah, D) the wheel was buckled out if the box.
I have purchased cheap machine built wheels off eBay that were truer.
E) wheels wasn't round either, and spoke tension was so irregular the difference in pitch acoustically was two whole tones (4 semitones), in tension that is the equivalent of about three whole turns of a nipple.
Also, the soft freehubs get chewed out real quick. I went through two freehubs in just a few weeks and ended up having to solve the problem by purchasing a really cheap and heavy Tiagra cassette because it was the only one that had rivets going all the way though and stopping the cogs chewing up the hub.
I have had more problems too but won't mention them here.
My second set of zipps (Zipp 60) have been fine after a year, but I only have these as Zipp offered them to me as a replacement for my originals that I had all the problems with.
Wish I went enve, the enve carbon is so much higher quality.

What a shame!
Do you know some problems related to the 404 firestrike model?

[harmonix1234]

Sorry, no. Not the fire strike.
I just find it hard to trust a company that sends out products as shonky as the ones I got. Regardless of model. But have seen the carbon side walls of Zipp 404 clinchers destroyed on normal, not ridiculous descents. Cracked right along the bottom of the sidewall about 6 inches. The wall failed and the tyre hence blew off the rim, and I have seen the side wall of a 404 tub carbon become so soft and damaged you could squeeze it in with your thumb like play dough. Never crashed, only raced a few times.
I have never ever heard anybody ever start a sentence with "I got this problem with my enve's".

Who knows, the quality, process and QC of the fire strike might be subject to stricter tolerances. I would hope so. I am keen to see others input on the fire strikes who have used them too.
Sorry if my post misled you about a different product.
My comment was more based in my unhappiness with zipps standards than anything.
Good luck with the purchase!

[Vallinotti]

Sorry, no. Not the fire strike.
I just find it hard to trust a company that sends put products as shonky as the ones I got.
Who knows, the quality, process and QC of the fire strike might be subject to stricter tolerances. I would hope so. I am keen to see others input on the fire strikes who have used them too.
Sorry if my post misled you about a different product.
My comment was more based in my unhappiness with zipps standards than anything.
Good luck with the purchase!

I appreciate your comments! No worry. About these models I already ordered the Firestrike ,but I am about to come back and buy a ENVE with DT180 hubs.
Anyway, who knows somebody gives me a reason to keep my order, even heavier and more expansive.

[sd5500]

As someone who is about the have some 6.7 tubulars built up with WI T11 hubs, you should research the 180s. Everything I found is that the 240s are a way better option. Obviously the price, but more important, durability. My set will be a race day only set, so I was willing to sacrifice some weight for hubs that will take a beating. You may have different needs, but you should still research the 180s. Good luck!

[goodboyr]

I've had zipps for 5 years. (404 firecrest tubulars, 303 firecrest clinchers) with no issues. I love them. You will find extremely polarized views on zipps. Remember that there are lots out there, the internet usually only has complaints. Some of the issues noted above were for older models. The new hubs are much better.

[Vallinotti]

I've had zipps for 5 years. (404 firecrest tubulars, 303 firecrest clinchers) with no issues. I love them. You will find extremely polarized views on zipps. Remember that there are lots out there, the internet usually only has complaints. Some of the issues noted above were for older models. The new hubs are much better.

This is the point! I've had zipps for a long time too. But with so much good comments about enves and the equal price for both options I start to consider it.

[Slagter]

A lot of my teammates have Zipps. They have 101, 202, 303, 404, firecrest, nonfirecrest, tubular, clincher... Most of them are happy with them. Some of them have had problems. Most problems are with the hubs though.

But as mentioned above. I've never heard of anyone having problems with Enve. Buy Enve rims and build them with WI T11 hubs. Thats a bulletproof option. Case closed...

[Succisa75]

I was in the same situation about a month ago. Saw the Firestrikes, likes the new graphics and the new V10 hubs which are quite different than the V9 (they look more robust and with ceramic bearings). I was about to buy them but one of the sales reps at the shop told me to check out Enve before I commit, especially since the price is higher for the Firestrikes than most wheels except Lightweights.

Tried the Enve 6.7 clinchers and fell in love with them. The braking is great, the wheels feel more stable to me than the 404 firecrest and they are lighter as well.

The Firestrikes weight 1620 without wheels and they only come in a clincher. The Enve's can come in significantly lighter depending on your hub and spoke choice and with a 5 year warranty as well.

I would try and demo both if you can so you can make a better decision.

[harmonix1234]

Good point there goodboyr.
I might mention the problems I had was with a hub that was discontinued, the V8. (2013)

[BdaGhisallo]

Why is it that Zipp have to continually, year after year, redesign their hubs? The DT 240s hub has remained unchanged since it was introduced about ten years ago. King hubs are rarely redesigned. Hmmm... I wonder!

There is no major brand that I can think of that carries such a negative impression for me as Zipp. I have heard so many stories of poor design and quality, that I wouldn't take a pair if they were given to me. I have two pairs of Enve wheels with 240s hubs and couldn't be more pleased with my purchase.

[Briscoelab]

Enve. But, as others have mentioned, skip the DT180 hubs. Total waste of money. Just get the 240s and be happy (or Kings). If you want to get into the price class of the DT180, there are better options. But, those aren't really going to make a better wheel.

The WI T11 are great hubs too, and are affordable.

[Vallinotti]

Thanks for all responses! Could please someone clarify how the ENVEs breaks in wet conditions? My parameter is my old Zipp 303 firecrest, that I think that performs quite well.

[Waldo]

But have seen the carbon side walls of Zipp 404 clinchers destroyed on normal, not ridiculous descents. Cracked right along the bottom of the sidewall about 6 inches. The wall failed and the tyre hence blew off the rim, and I have seen the side wall of a 404 tub carbon become so soft and damaged you could squeeze it in with your thumb like play dough. Never crashed, only raced a few times.

I don't want to derail this thread but would certainly be interested if you had any more details on the clincher failures during descents Pictures would be better still, but I realize that's asking a lot.