Light weight tubeless compatible clincher-climbs & cobbles

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aerobikewheels
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:00 pm

by aerobikewheels

Dear weenies,

I am looking for a wheelset for around 1400 Grams for climbing and cobbles (the paris-roubaix ones) once a year.

things to know,

I sell carbon wheels and have experience in wheelbuilding,
Mostly for racers who want a wheel as stiff as possible, so 2xds/radial nds and front 20/24 spokes or 18/21 (2:1). I have been wheelbuilding for a year, spokes a whole lot of carbon rims, but except for truing my experience with aluminum rims is limited. My experience is if i take the time needed i can spoke a carbon wheel to 0.05mm sideway accuracy 0.1 vertical and a spoke tension difference easy within 10kgf. I don't know though how aluminum rims react. i can imagine they are a little less stiff as carbon and a little harder.

The lightweight part is not hard to achieve, but at the same time it has to take a person of 80KG over the cobbles. I think the combination of lighter weight wheels and compatible for cobbles is an interesting challange.

They also must be tubeless compatible.

My research so far:

Rim's i have an eye on now:
1. Pacenti 23SL (24H / 27H ) 24mm wide
2. DT Swiss RR440 (with Asymetric rear) (24H / 28H ) 21mm wide


other rim suggestions are welcome


Spoke's
(i normally use sapim cx-ray or the cheaper psr 1420 spokes from pillar)
For this set i am thinking of using a 24/28 spoke combination or 24/27 (2:1).
27 hole rims seem quite rare, but using a 36 hole rim should also work.


Hub's:
I have over 20 wheels with powerway-hubs, never got one back. and the straight pull ones look amazing too. They are used by elite and u23 racers and handle criteriums extremely well. wich also have bumps and cobbles. But incomparable of the lot at paris roubaix.

Also, what wheeltension do i use, Normally i tension my wheels at least with 100psi front and 120psi rear ds. and i have build sets up to 160kgf drive side.

but for cobbles this is too much i realize,
I dislike wheels with less then 60KGF nds tension as the spokes easily distress, and causing spoke failure. So for not one of my customers came back with a snapped spoke and i want to keep it that way. so therefore an offset rim or 2:1 spoke combination seems interesting for me.

But all this is just theory, so please advice me and tell me your experience,
Thanks in advance.

Greetings, Jan-Willem van Soest

edited: 'Lightweight' are a brand. 'Light weight' is what you are looking for

Marin
Posts: 4035
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Why no carbon rims?

by Weenie


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aerobikewheels
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:00 pm

by aerobikewheels

Because aluminum brake surface is required. And i have a budget limit.
And carbon rims with alu breaksurfaces below 30 mm are heavier than their aluminum competitors.

If it would be a set for myself i would just go full carbon tubes, but tubes is not an option. so tubeless is the best alternative i think.

I checked the paris roubaix wheels, they all seem to be 20/24 spokes. as it is hard to find straigh pulls at 28 or 27 holes i am considering this as an option. but using stronger spokes.

shimmeD
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: eNZed

by shimmeD

Have a look at what BHS has, advertising right on this page.

I've heard that DT has a new 460 but don't know if it's tubeless compatible or anything much more actually.

There're good reports on Hed C2 as well.
Less is more.

pushstart
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:12 am

by pushstart

Probably any clincher rim will work tubeless with Stans tape + sealant. I have converted a number of wheelsets -- Kinlin and H+ rims and all seat easily with floor pump. Road pressures make this easy since you don't have to deal with burping etc. Obviously you have to use tubeless tires.

The new BHS c31w is nice, maybe not quite light enough. But I suspect you could get close to target with 20/24 Laser spokes and light hubs. The new DT Swiss 460 does look nice. If you are already planning to use tubeless, I would build a 24/28 Alpha 400 wheelset with BHS hubs and Laser spokes.

Slagter
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:42 am

by Slagter

Why not choose Stans no tubes 340 with high spoke count for more strength? That way you´ll get both light and strong....

aerobikewheels
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:00 pm

by aerobikewheels

Because the 340 is only 20mm wide, i prefer the 23mm wide rims. Especially for paris roubaix, as the tires will probably 27mm wide.

Apart from that a 32 spoke rim wouldve been an option.

I have to setups now:


Setup one
Powerway 24 / 28 hole hub
option 1: http://www.power-way.com.tw/phb-r13.htm front / http://www.power-way.com.tw/pfh-r13.htm rear

option 2:
http://www.power-way.com.tw/phb-m65.htm front
http://www.power-way.com.tw/pfh-m65.htm rear
(those are MTB hubs, i can order rear version for 130mm)

Spokes:
http://www.pillarspoke.com/p03-5_psr_x-tra.htm
The X-Tra 1422 spoke

Velocity AC23 rims (rear wheel offset version)

setup 2
Powerway R36 Hubs 8:16 lacing
http://www.power-way.com.tw/phb-r36.htm
http://www.power-way.com.tw/pfh-r36.htm

With front and DS
PA 1432 spokes
http://www.pillarspoke.com/p03-1_aero.htm

and the 8 NDS spokes
http://www.pillarspoke.com/p03-3_heavy_duty_aero.htm

With pacenti 24H triplet lacing rims.

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rmerka
Posts: 618
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:23 pm
Location: Austin, TX

by rmerka

I have a set of the new DT Swiss R460 rims 28h, and they are typical of a DT rim. Very well made and the joint is nearly invisible, quite hard to find unless you're looking for it. With your eyes closed I'd bet you couldn't find it by running your finger along the brake track, it's a very nice rim. Would probably shy away from them though for a cobble wheel due the sleeve joint. My opinion is that you should be looking at the HED Belgium Plus rim for a wide, fairly light (469g) and welded rim to ride the cobbles with. It's tubeless compatible as well. Only "downside" to it is that it's only available in 28 or 32h, but you are looking for a robust wheel, right?

Slagter
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:42 am

by Slagter

you can save a few grams by choosing hubs from bikehubstore. They come in a 70g/190g configuration.

Alex_ucsb
Shop Owner
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:31 am

by Alex_ucsb

If you're going to be spending time on cobblestones, I'd steer clear of BHS hubs. They're light, however unfortunately like 98% of Taiwanese hubs, they use really undersized bearings that will probably just get destroyed riding that kind of thing.

bm0p700f
in the industry
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by bm0p700f

the belgian + is available in 24H I have got some. The hubs I would use on a budget is the Miche Primato. Not overly light but they have big 6001 bearings and steel axle, an advantage if you want to ride cobbles. I also would not choose Bitex or lightweight novatec hubs for PR.

As for rim I can think of not more perfect than the h plus son archetype.

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FIJIGabe
Posts: 2241
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:07 pm
Location: The Lone Star State

by FIJIGabe

I know you're looking to build your wheels, but have you looked at the Bontrager RXL wheels? They're under 1400g for the set (weighed them myself), are tubeless compatible with the rim strip, and are 23mm wide. They also have DT Swiss 240 hubs, front and rear.

If I remember correctly, they're 18/24.

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rmerka
Posts: 618
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:23 pm
Location: Austin, TX

by rmerka

bm0p700f wrote:the belgian + is available in 24H I have got some.


Maybe they're not sold in the US, or they stopped making them? I can't find 24h anywhere. Ardennes + wheels (I know same rim) yes but not the rims stand-a-lone.

bm0p700f
in the industry
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

Well I order mine from HED U.S which erm get them from HED in the U.S. The whole reason why it has taken us U.K builder months to get hold of the 24H rims is becuase U.S wheel builder were taking all the stock.

pushstart
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:12 am

by pushstart

aerobikewheels wrote:Because the 340 is only 20mm wide, i prefer the 23mm wide rims. Especially for paris roubaix, as the tires will probably 27mm wide.


Inner width is what matters here. The 340 has a 17mm inner width which puts it on par with the likes of the H+ Son Archetype and many 23mm (exterior width) rims. But 1mm less than the SL23. And a couple/few mm less than the C2+. FWIW, my 17mm(inner)-wide rims make a nominal 25mm GP4000S measure 27mm. Same tire measures 28mm on my Flo30 rims which have a 19.1mm internal width.

Most of the good rim options that spring to my mind are disc-specific -- like the Velocity Aileron or new Notubes Grail, excellent rim.

C2+ sounds like an excellent choice if you can find them in the configuration you need.

by Weenie


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