Hands on experience with Flo 30 rims and wheel build/ride

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blasdelf
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Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:45 am

by blasdelf

pushstart wrote:But the thing that really bugged me was how hard it is to mount tires on these rims. They are the most difficult rims I have ever encountered -- and I used Velo plugs and am running GP4000S tires, which fit loosely on every other rim I have used. I bought a Crank Bros speed lever so that I wouldn't be stranded if I got a flat on the trail; used it for the first time last week (it worked great).


Veloplugs are bad enough normally, but they don't work at all on tubeless-ready rims

Velocity even explicitly says not to use them on their newer rim models

you should only be using thin tubeless tape like the yellow Stan's stuff

pushstart
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by pushstart

Why? Would 2 layers of yellow tape actually be lower profile than veloplugs? I don't see what bearing a tubeless-ready rim would have on what rim tape/plugs one uses. Obviously if I were running tubeless, I wouldn't be using veloplugs :)

(Wait, is this rim even considered tubeless-ready?)

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blasdelf
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by blasdelf

Yes, two layers of tape is lower profile and very slick

Veloplugs want to catch the bead on all those edges, and stand out immensely in the recessed bead channel of a TLR design (which the FLO30 most definitely is)

They're almost as hellish on a modern rim as cloth tape! They're really not something anyone should be recommending anymore, especially when a giant roll of thin tape is so cheap

pushstart
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by pushstart

OK, I will give the tape a try when I swap tires (or tubes) next. I use yellow tape on most of my rims (esp. the ones that stand a chance of being used tubeless), but had a bag of veloplugs lying around and didn't want them to go to waste. I had read somewhere that veloplugs were the lowest profile option, but they do stick up a bit.

squidsauce
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by squidsauce

Got my custom Flo 30 build (28/32 Sapim Lasers and Dura Ace 9000 hubs) around a week ago.
Mounting my Michelin Pro 4 tires (with tubes) with two layers of Stans yellow tape (25mm) wasn't bad at all, but unmounting the tire was a little bit more of a pain than other rims I've had.
I tried looking for a hop in the rim by spinning the wheels with/without tires mounted while installed onto my bike and was unable to see any.
They ride extremely smoothly, and to me, feels even smoother than my Flo 60s (which could be due to the hubs more than the rims).

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Canadian
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by Canadian

squidsauce wrote:Got my custom Flo 30 build (28/32 Sapim Lasers and Dura Ace 9000 hubs) around a week ago.
Mounting my Michelin Pro 4 tires (with tubes) with two layers of Stans yellow tape (25mm) wasn't bad at all, but unmounting the tire was a little bit more of a pain than other rims I've had.
I tried looking for a hop in the rim by spinning the wheels with/without tires mounted while installed onto my bike and was unable to see any.
They ride extremely smoothly, and to me, feels even smoother than my Flo 60s (which could be due to the hubs more than the rims).


Excellent! Glad to hear the build went well. Thanks for the update.
Chris
FLO Cycling: http://www.flocycling.com
FLO Blog: http://bit.ly/b3Zlpq | FLO Facebook: http://bit.ly/d8KDhI

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by Canadian

Alex_ucsb wrote:I tried to build a set once, however it seemed I got a set that was not made to spec, as the actual ERD was way off what they actually quote on their site. Wound up giving up on the project before finishing, however my other impressions were that they were very heavy, roughly finished, and generally seemed very cheap. If you're hell-bent on using them, I'd go with a low spoke count to take the greatest advantage of their aerodynamic qualities; the rims have got so much meat on them that you can probably get away with it.


I know I've chimed in here before but I wanted to post one more thing after some additional research.

Effective Rim Diameter. This is the rim diameter measured at the nipple seats in the spoke holes, plus the thickness of the two nipple heads. The E.R.D. is needed for calculating the correct spoke length.

If you are using different nipples than we use OR seating your spokes at a different location in the nipples, then you can get a much different answer. In all honesty, our ERD value only really works for the components we use. If you are building with different components or specs, then please measure your own ERD to get an accurate value.
Chris
FLO Cycling: http://www.flocycling.com
FLO Blog: http://bit.ly/b3Zlpq | FLO Facebook: http://bit.ly/d8KDhI

Slagter
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Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:42 am

by Slagter

I've done 2.000-2.200 km on the wheels now. 1.200 in danish winter conditions, with rain and cold weather, and around 800 km in the mountains of Alicante, Spain. And I think its time for an update.

As mentioned at some point earlier, I rebuild the wheels with Miche Primato Syntesi hubs bought at bm0p700f's shop - the cycle clinic. Really reasonably priced and with a 24r/20f option. I didn't want to bring out the DT 240's in the danish crapweather, which is why I switched for more affordable and more durable hubs. I guess though this will put the wheels in the heavy category with around 1.800-1.900 grams (just guessing). But who cares about weight when everything is about aero now, right ;-)

The rims and hubs have withstood both the danish crapweather, and riding mountains in spain.

In the danish crapweather it doesn't really make a big difference, what kind of wheels you run under your prolonged mudguards. Aero benefits from wheels when riding mudguards is not really relevant. But the wide profile still makes a huge difference while cornering with or without mudguards.

The Flo's are 25.92 mm wide and the inner width is also significant. For my trip to Spain I mounted 23 mm GP4000s 2 conti's and they measured 25.4 mm. Descending in the mountains was absolutely superior with these wheels. They feel very good en crosswinds as well.

I must say that they have become my do-it-all training wheels.

My friend rode the Zipp 101 wheels on the same trip. The Flo rims are only 40 grams heavier each than the Zipp 101, but almost 2 mm wider, and the shape of the rim is way more toroidal than the Zipp 101, which make the Flo's more desirable than the Zipps IMO (not to mention way more affordable).

As mentioned earlier, the only drawback is mounting and dismounting tires. Didn't matter if I ran Schwalbe Durano + or the GP4000s 2. They both where very difficult to dis(mount).

The ParkTools TL-6 tirelevers do a great job though. You just have to watch out not to pinch the tubes while mounting the tire with the ParkTool levers.

If you don't mind a little more hazzle when dis(mounting) tires, you really get great alloy clincher rims with the Flo30's. They really do the job, and they look very nice as well. I just hope, that Flo will work on the brake track size - maybe shave of 1 or 2 mm to make tire handling easier.


Image


Image

pushstart
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by pushstart

Thanks for update. I will post an update as well, since I have put a few thousand km on mine too at this point.

Other than misinformation about ERD (which was later changed on the website) my concerns when building were just the "hop" in the rims near weld and the difficulty mounting tires.

I will say that the hop is not a practical concern; I cannot feel it even on smooth roads, so that was more of a build-quality annoyance than an actual problem.

As for the difficulty mounting tires, this was helped greatly when I switched to using Pacenti blue tape (which seems identical to Stans yellow tape, apart from color) instead of the yellow veloplugs. I used two layers of tape, although I have no plans to run these tubeless. Mounting GP4000S tires is still difficult, but I can do it with standard levers. The Crank Bros speed lever is still a nice accessory to have but not a requirement for trailside repair. I did find the Schwalbe Duranos, my winter tires, easier to mount (could mount without tools) but perhaps mine were more stretched out. I briefly had some Clement Strava LGG tires mounted, which were easiest by far.

The ride characteristics are nice. I also often run mine with mudguards/fenders, so am losing aero benefit, but they feel very solid (heavy) and the width really plumps up tires -- I believe my 25mm Conti tires measure nearly 28mm. And I believe this does add to cornering confidence, though I have not been doing any big mountain descents with these yet.

For reference I am running these as disc-brake wheels. 28/28 with cx-ray spokes laced to mixed hubset DT Swiss 240 front and Hope Pro 2 Evo rear. Not a light wheelset at all (esp rear) but it is mostly noticeable when starting from a stop on an incline or lifting bike up onto hanging hook.

Would I recommend? Yeah, with qualifications. Obviously measure ERD yourself (though I believe published ERD is now within tolerance of my measurements on my rims) if you are building the wheels. And use thinnest rim tape option -- Pacenti or Stans tape is a good choice. And still probably invest in good-quality tire levers; that Crank Bros Speed(ier) Lever is very nice, for example but more traditional levers should do the trick with thin rim tape (and good tire mount/dismount technique).
Image
Last edited by pushstart on Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Canadian
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by Canadian

pushstart wrote:Thanks for update. I will post an update as well, since I have put a few thousand km on mine too at this point.

Other than misinformation about ERD (which was later changed on the website) my concerns when building were just the "hop" in the rims near weld and the difficulty mounting tires.

I will say that the hop is not a practical concern; I cannot feel it even on smooth roads, so that was more of a build-quality annoyance than an actual problem.

As for the difficulty mounting tires, this was helped greatly when I switched to using Pacenti blue tape (which seems identical to Stans yellow tape, apart from color) instead of the yellow veloplugs. I used two layers of tape, although I have no plans to run these tubeless. Mounting GP4000S tires is still difficult, but I can do it with standard levers. The Crank Bros speed lever is still a nice accessory to have but not a requirement for trailside repair. I did find the Schwalbe Duranos, my winter tires, easier to mount (could mount without tools) but perhaps mine were more stretched out. I briefly had some Clement Strava LGG tires mounted, which were easiest by far.

The ride characteristics are nice. I also often run mine with mudguards/fenders, so am losing aero benefit, but they feel very solid (heavy) and the width really plumps up tires -- I believe my 25mm Conti tires measure nearly 28mm. And I believe this does add to cornering confidence, though I have not been doing any big mountain descents with these yet.

For reference I am running these as disc-brake wheels. 28/28 with cx-ray spokes laced to mixed hubset DT Swiss 240 front and Hope Pro 2 Evo rear. Not a light wheelset at all (esp rear) but it is mostly noticeable when starting from a stop on an incline or lifting bike up onto hanging hook.

Would I recommend? Yeah, which qualifications. Obviously measure ERD yourself (though I believe published ERD is now within tolerance of my measurements on my rims) if you are building the wheels. And use thinnest rim tape option -- Pacenti or Stans tape is a good choice. And still probably invest in good-quality tire levers; that Crank Bros Speed(ier) Lever is very nice, for example but more traditional levers should do the trick with thin rim tape (and good tire mount/dismount technique).



Thanks for the thoughts. I posted an update about ERD above. Incase you didn't see it, I've pasted it below again.



Effective Rim Diameter. This is the rim diameter measured at the nipple seats in the spoke holes, plus the thickness of the two nipple heads. The E.R.D. is needed for calculating the correct spoke length.

If you are using different nipples than we use OR seating your spokes at a different location in the nipples, then you can get a much different answer. In all honesty, our ERD value only really works for the components we use. If you are building with different components or specs, then please measure your own ERD to get an accurate value.


Take care,
Chris
FLO Cycling: http://www.flocycling.com
FLO Blog: http://bit.ly/b3Zlpq | FLO Facebook: http://bit.ly/d8KDhI

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Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez
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by Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez

Very nice rim/wheels.

Chris, would you do custom drilling? One day I'd like a 22 holes rim to match a Campagnolo Neutron front hub.

pushstart
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by pushstart

Canadian wrote:Thanks for the thoughts. I posted an update about ERD above. Incase you didn't see it, I've pasted it below again.


Yeah, I had seen that; thank you. I guess I would assume that the ERD is being measured using standard DT Swiss or Sapim nipples? That appears to be what other manufacturers do; I am inferring that, anyway, because my measurements (using spokes threaded into base of Sapim nipples) are generally consistent with other mfr claims.

Slagter
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by Slagter

@ Chris

Are you looking into the tiremountingproblem?

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by Canadian

Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez wrote:Very nice rim/wheels.

Chris, would you do custom drilling? One day I'd like a 22 holes rim to match a Campagnolo Neutron front hub.


Sorry Samuel but we can't do custom drillings. Right now the only offerings we have are what we can offer.

All the best,
Chris
FLO Cycling: http://www.flocycling.com
FLO Blog: http://bit.ly/b3Zlpq | FLO Facebook: http://bit.ly/d8KDhI

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by Canadian

Slagter wrote:@ Chris

Are you looking into the tiremountingproblem?


Slagter,

We are not really seeing a big problem with tire mounting. Tires have a tolerance and are often tight when new. 99% of the customers I've helped with this problem were installing the tire wrong. I've had several customers send wheels back that they couldn't get tires on, and I was able to do it with my hands. And no, I don't have really strong hands, I've just installed a million tires in the last few years and have learned how to do it well. I've added a link to a video with some tips. Perhaps they will help a little.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_Cp0TRWnx4

Take care,
Chris
FLO Cycling: http://www.flocycling.com
FLO Blog: http://bit.ly/b3Zlpq | FLO Facebook: http://bit.ly/d8KDhI

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