Hands on experience with Flo 30 rims and wheel build/ride

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pushstart
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:12 am

by pushstart

That is odd that there was such difference in our ERD measurements. What method do you use to measure? (I use Musson's 2-spoke+elastic method.) The spokes I ordered with those measurements were just right -- definitely not on the short side.

Perhaps just a different batch of rims had very different ERD.

Slagter
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:42 am

by Slagter

You´re right, that is odd.

I did exactly the same as my previous build: viewtopic.php?f=113&t=125982&p=1075888&hilit=erd+musson#p1075888

That worket out fine for me.

by Weenie


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blasdelf
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:45 am

by blasdelf

I built up a 20/24 set this summer from the first batch of individually-sold rims, and had no trouble using the listed ERD

They advised to use spoke washers but didn't list which kind, their factory wheels use Sapim HM washers and those worked great for me

I used DT bladed spokes, Aerocomps on the driveside and Aerolites everywhere else, I like their profile at the transition better than CX-Rays

Hubs were Industry Nine road rear and a SON XS100neu front dynamo hub intended for folding bikes

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(pardon the flat pedals in the pictures, I had just broken my ankle)

blasdelf
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:45 am

by blasdelf

The wheelset they replaced was ultra weenie, Alpha 340 rims and early bitex hubs, over 500g lighter!

I found the FLO30s to handle a lot nicer and ride perceptibly faster, the aero trumps weight

I don't think I'll be swapping the old wheelset back onto this bike for anything, I even did a big mountain 600k brevet on them: http://ridewithgps.com/routes/5836427

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as you can see the black anodization comes off fairly quickly if you're riding anywhere that braking is actually needed

I've got Schwalbe One 25s on there now that measure close to 27mm so the sidewalls bulge beyond the brake track, I think I'll swap to the 23s I have so that "toroidal profile" lines up better. The rim profile also doesn't exactly match their renderings, the brake track has a prominent edge at the bottom.

The tires seated easily with a floor pump, I highly recommend using these tubeless.

Slagter
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:42 am

by Slagter

Great review blasdelf - thanks. Wheels look great :thumbup:

Quick question. I have no experience with spoke washers. And found this on Sheldon Brown:


Flange thicknesses vary, but the spoke's elbow should be snug against the flange. If it is not, the spoke's tension will try to bend the spoke at the elbow -- a frequent cause of spoke breakage.


Will the necessity of use of spokewashers depend on the hub flange thickness, the spokes or the rim? My logic tells me, that it depends on the flange thickness combined with the j bend on the spoke. But I´m not sure...

pushstart
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:12 am

by pushstart

I assume he meant nipple washers, not spoke washers. (I would imagine that rim mfrs would have no opinion on the use of spoke washers; that would be a hub mfr recommendation.)

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Canadian
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Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 1:28 am
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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by Canadian

Alex_ucsb wrote:I tried to build a set once, however it seemed I got a set that was not made to spec, as the actual ERD was way off what they actually quote on their site. Wound up giving up on the project before finishing, however my other impressions were that they were very heavy, roughly finished, and generally seemed very cheap. If you're hell-bent on using them, I'd go with a low spoke count to take the greatest advantage of their aerodynamic qualities; the rims have got so much meat on them that you can probably get away with it.


I just read your comments. Can I ask you a few questions?

1. How did you measure the ERD and what was your measurement?
2. What about the rims was "cheap"
3. Do you have any pictures of what was roughly finished? Can you help me better understand what you mean by this?

Thanks,
Chris
FLO Cycling: http://www.flocycling.com
FLO Blog: http://bit.ly/b3Zlpq | FLO Facebook: http://bit.ly/d8KDhI

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Canadian
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Location: Las Vegas, NV
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by Canadian

pushstart wrote:I measured my Flo30 rims at 580-580.5mm, so quite a bit off from claimed. I let them know, but I don't think they will update their product page. Not sure, why they don't measure the rims they are selling.

We do measure our rims. Not sure why we wouldn't. How are you measuring ERD?

They built up fine, though (both) my rims had a significant (1+mm?) hop at the weld that I couldn't get rid of (without really making tensions imbalanced, anyway). The finish quality of the rim was definitely lower than I was expecting -- not as nice as H+ for sure. They seemed to have some scuffs/scrapes on them like from a rough cleaning/polishing or something. It is OK; they are on the commuter. I took off the stickers which looked really cheap to me.

Our factory built wheels do not have this 1+mm hop you are referring to and our spoke tensions are not out of balance. What spec are you using to build the wheel?

But the thing that really bugged me was how hard it is to mount tires on these rims. They are the most difficult rims I have ever encountered -- and I used Velo plugs and am running GP4000S tires, which fit loosely on every other rim I have used. I bought a Crank Bros speed lever so that I wouldn't be stranded if I got a flat on the trail; used it for the first time last week (it worked great).

But they do roll nicely! And they look great. They make some wind noise which is nice. And they feel very solid in construction, which they should for being so portly :). These are my commuter disc-brake wheels; other than the tire change challenges they seem great for that task. The 25mm Conti tire measures 28mm on these rims.
Chris
FLO Cycling: http://www.flocycling.com
FLO Blog: http://bit.ly/b3Zlpq | FLO Facebook: http://bit.ly/d8KDhI

pushstart
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:12 am

by pushstart

Canadian wrote:We do measure our rims. Not sure why we wouldn't. How are you measuring ERD?


I am using Roger Musson's method: two 200mm spoke lengths connected by elastic with nipples flush to base and measuring gap between spokes. I checked them both numerous times. My tool measurements are consistent with other mfr listings and the spokes I ordered using my measurements were the right length -- definitely not too short. And I am not the only one that has reported mismatch with measured and stated ERD on these rims. So perhaps there are batches that are significantly out of spec?


Canadian wrote:Our factory built wheels do not have this 1+mm hop you are referring to and our spoke tensions are not out of balance. What spec are you using to build the wheel?


I can only assume, then, that I again got unlucky and had two bad-example rims shipped to me. I used 135kgf for the rear (drive-side) and 125kgf for the front (disc-side). The out-of-round hop was significant on both rims and in the same place (around weld) on both. Building wheels is not my day job, but I have built dozens of wheels on different rims (lots of Kinlin and Stans especially, but also various Velocity and Mavic rims) and never experienced quite so significant a challenge with radial truing. As mentioned, I stopped trying to adjust for the hop since I was not able to do much to mitigate that without sacrificing balanced tensions.

squidsauce
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:24 pm

by squidsauce

Canadian, I just noticed that you guys changed the ERD listed on your blog to 577.5 from 586:
https://archive.today/v53V4

pushstart
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:12 am

by pushstart

Wow, well that is 2.5-3mm less than I measured on mine. So did design of these rims drastically change over past X months?

Slagter
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:42 am

by Slagter

Very easy to build and they look awesome. Got a little hop too on both rims at the joint between spokeholes. But I´m fairly sure, it won't be a problem when the tire comes on. Turned out a little heavier than expected at 1.698 g a pair w/u rimtape.

But if they ride just half as well as they look, these are gonna be my new favorite do it all wheels.



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Canadian
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Location: Las Vegas, NV
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by Canadian

pushstart wrote:
Canadian wrote:We do measure our rims. Not sure why we wouldn't. How are you measuring ERD?


I am using Roger Musson's method: two 200mm spoke lengths connected by elastic with nipples flush to base and measuring gap between spokes. I checked them both numerous times. My tool measurements are consistent with other mfr listings and the spokes I ordered using my measurements were the right length -- definitely not too short. And I am not the only one that has reported mismatch with measured and stated ERD on these rims. So perhaps there are batches that are significantly out of spec?


Canadian wrote:Our factory built wheels do not have this 1+mm hop you are referring to and our spoke tensions are not out of balance. What spec are you using to build the wheel?


I can only assume, then, that I again got unlucky and had two bad-example rims shipped to me. I used 135kgf for the rear (drive-side) and 125kgf for the front (disc-side). The out-of-round hop was significant on both rims and in the same place (around weld) on both. Building wheels is not my day job, but I have built dozens of wheels on different rims (lots of Kinlin and Stans especially, but also various Velocity and Mavic rims) and never experienced quite so significant a challenge with radial truing. As mentioned, I stopped trying to adjust for the hop since I was not able to do much to mitigate that without sacrificing balanced tensions.


I reached out to my factory after seeing the comments in this forum. I mentioned that people were measuring different values than we were given. Long story short, we were sent the wrong ERD. I apologize for the confusion. The new measured value from the factory is 577.5mm. I would say that any small differences from that value would be a result of the method used to measure.

Thanks for brining this to our attention.
Chris
FLO Cycling: http://www.flocycling.com
FLO Blog: http://bit.ly/b3Zlpq | FLO Facebook: http://bit.ly/d8KDhI

squidsauce
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:24 pm

by squidsauce

Canadian, can you confirm whether or not this hop is a problem on all the Flo 30 rims? I just had a pair of rims ordered and I was hoping that they wouldn't have any issues.

pushstart
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:12 am

by pushstart

Canadian wrote:I reached out to my factory after seeing the comments in this forum. I mentioned that people were measuring different values than we were given. Long story short, we were sent the wrong ERD. I apologize for the confusion. The new measured value from the factory is 577.5mm. I would say that any small differences from that value would be a result of the method used to measure.

Thanks for brining this to our attention.


No prob -- glad to hear it is updated. Though a bit surprised that it still is that far off what I measured -- however I would imagine that this would be within spoke length tolerance even if there were some vailriation.

Squidsauce, I will say that the radial hop is not noticeable once the tires are mounted. It bugged me while building, but I suspect is of little practical significance.

by Weenie


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