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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:04 pm
Posts: 36
Hello,

I ride a Colnago Super in Saronni paintscheme with modern Campy/3T components. It came to 9.5 kilos for a size 59... not too bad.

http://velospace.org/node/48128

The only thing that was not as I planned was the wheelset: a Fulcrum Racing 5.

I was more into a Nemesis/Record wheelset but since I am doing audaxes I prefer the safety of clinchers.

I am looking to this setup

Ambrosio Excellence S.S.C rims
Campy Record 28h hubs
DT Super Comp spokes
DT Brass nipples

Ambrosio Excellence S.S.C rims
Ambrosio Zenith 28h hubs
DT Super Comp spokes
DT Brass nipples

The second setup saves me 130 dollars and both end up being around 1500 gr. wheelsets without QR while the Racing 5s are 1685 gr.

KNowing that in a steel bike of 9.5 kilos 150 grams less does not mean much, if I go to one of the above setup would it improve my rolling enough to worth the cost ? Aesthetically a box rim wheelset with 28 silver spokes is also more beautiful with a nice pair of Veloflex Master with the classic sidewall for this bike imho.

Your opinion for each setup? Does it worth going this route? Are the changes just looks ?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:20 pm 
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Location: Pack filler
could be looking around for some 28h record hubs for a looong time

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Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:20 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:34 pm 
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Dont have an issue getting record 28h. Does it worth the 130$ difference though?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:07 am 
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Worrying about the rolling resistance of each hub (which would be negligible) when you're on a bike that heavy is missing the forest for the trees.

Me, I'd stick with it all Campag where possible - especially given they make great hubs. But depends on how much 'matchy matchy' matters to you.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:28 pm 
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Since I bought a SRAM s30al race, I promises myself never buy any factory build again. Custom build is the way to win ;) your second set up look perfect and its will last for a long time.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:04 pm
Posts: 36
Hello.

My carbon bike came with a set of Mavic Axium Pro wheel set. I always had the complain that the energy put on the pedals did not transfer in the wheel. Their reaction was slow. I substituted them with a pair of Dura Ace C 24 ... problem solved. It was a different bike.

My second bike is a modern build of a Colnago Super. Amazing ride. The Fulcrum Racing 5 though kinda suffer with the same problem. They are kinda slow to translate the push of the pedals to forward movement. At least that is how I feel it.

I am thinking of making a 32/32 Ambrosio Nemesis/Campy Record hubs wheel set for :

a) the looks of the wheels with a set of Veloflex tires
b) the iconic part of the wheel set
c) for removing that sluggishness

Do you think C) is achievable or it does not worth the investment in order to have a wheel set with quicker response.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:52 pm 
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Posts: 111
Location: Copenhagen
I would say that you need deep section carbon rims. 40-60 mm with Toroidal shape.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:57 pm 
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You'd achieve A. and B. but not C. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:04 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
If you actually measure you accleration time with the DA c24 wheels and the Racing 5's or ambrosio/record wheels you will find there is no difference. You may "feel" a difference but say over a 200m sprint from rest the difference will be in the order of not alot. I am sure I have seen articles about this. I sure you could work out with a bit of physics (if I had the time I would run a model but the spreadsheet I used I have lost so I would have to remake it again). You can almost ignore rotational effects they are really small. Keeping a wheel spining conusme 1% of a riders power.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:37 pm 
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bm0p700f wrote:
If you actually measure you accleration time with the DA c24 wheels and the Racing 5's or ambrosio/record wheels you will find there is no difference. You may "feel" a difference but say over a 200m sprint from rest the difference will be in the order of not alot. I am sure I have seen articles about this. I sure you could work out with a bit of physics (if I had the time I would run a model but the spreadsheet I used I have lost so I would have to remake it again). You can almost ignore rotational effects they are really small. Keeping a wheel spining conusme 1% of a riders power.

1% is a lot if doing a TT and you can find a wheel that only takes .9%. Is this data available from any test on the road or is this calculation / lab based? It seems a lot more to me than 1%.

There is something more than the physics on a vertical plane through the wheels, bike and rider at work here. Actually seems too hard to do on a spreadsheet. The rider is constantly "micro" jarred off course/off balance and uses the gyroscopic effect of the wheels to balance back on course.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:10 am 
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Location: London, UK
I presume you mean Excellight not Excellence rims?

Either way I wouldn't use Veloflex clinchers on them. Both Veloflex and Ambrosio have interesting ideas about measurements, making for difficulties mounting tyres. Their tubs are a different matter though!

I'd go Record on Ambrosio Excellight, or H Plus Son TB14's, either 28 or 32 built with Sapim Lasers. Tyre choice for the last 3 years has been Open Corsa SC 25's and Challenge Latex tubes. Perfect.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
aero weenies site has the data. It was a cerevlo engineer that posted this. Also the OP is not doing TT's so when did a TT come into it.
I would use the TB14 rim over almost any other shallow rim for audax/training use. If you want light and shallow there is the Ryde Pulse sprint or if you want something lighter than the TB14 but with a braking track that is not thin then try the DT Swiss RR440 or R460.

Open corsa tyres are good. Personally I have little issue with tubulars so I would happily do long audax's on them. I have done many 100 miles rides on them and one 400km ride on tubs.

I would not build the TB14 or ambrosio excellight rim with laser spokes. These rims are simply not stiff enough for a build with lasers on the rear. The DT Swiss and ryde rims are a fair bit stiffer so laser can work even on rear wheels with these rims.

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Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:27 pm 


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