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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:26 pm
Posts: 34
Hi,

I have seen the thread "Where should alloy tubular rims go" discussion", but I don't feel any closer to the final decision. I would be happy to hear your suggestion and advice.

How I would be using wheels
Since I own my Corimas, I wanted to have a tubular spare wheels - I just love the way the tubulars roll, also I have never had a flat with them either. They should be a reserve wheels for racing in the bad weather conditions or on the bad roads. But they should be durable enough for everyday use, even during winter. But I want to have them light enough for racing - something around 1500 grams for a set would be nice. I wanna use the set with Veloflex Roubaix or FMB Paris-Roubaix. I'm relatively a light rider with 70-72kg.

Rim candidates

Mavic Reflex CD
+ The dark look is great, really stylish.
+ Probably the easiest to get in Czech Republic
+ Light
- Cracking eyelets
- Quality

Ambrosio Crono F20
+ Its Ambrosio!
+ Black sides - great looking
+ Light
- Quality?

HED Belgium C2
+ Wide rim
- Heavy
- Expensive

Honestly speaking I would prefer to buy Ambrosio Crono. HED is hard to get in CZ, also almost two times expensive.

Hubs candidates
Here, I'm not so sure. I have heard that Shimano hubs are almost bulletproof and easy to service. But I have had couple of cheaper Shimano hubs and they simply don't spin so easily like others hub I own. But it is possible I simply don't know how to adjust them correctly. But 6800 looks like a good hub for all the winter abuse. But I would be happy to hear other possibilities
Shimano 6800
+ Easy to buy
+ Cheap
- Heavy

Shimano 9000
+ Bulletproof
+ Light
- Price

DT Swiss 350
+ Light
+ Good feedback
- Price

Spokes
I would like to have butted spokes, reasonably light, but cheap. Since the wheels gonna be either 28h or 32h, no need for overly stiff spokes I suppose. So it should be DT Swiss REVOLUTION or Sapim Laser.

Thanks for your feedback and suggestions!

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I love silence, music, food and deep aero wheels | BMC SLR02 Di2 with Corima Aero "S"


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:20 am
Posts: 386
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
I was in a similar position earlier this year and ended up with a set of Ambrosio Nemesis rims on Campagnolo Record hubs, it's a great wheelset. The rims aren't the lightest but they seem really durable and look awesome(subjective). I use them as everyday wheels from April-September, so winter durability wasn't an issue for me. If it was I would probably have built them onto 6800 hubs to save some money. If that's not a concern to you, the Record hubs are fantastic, they roll so smoothly and aren't as expensive as 9000's or Chris Kings.


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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:06 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Posts: 2017
Location: Pedal Square
I would probably take a chance and go with the Mavics. In face I've been meaning to get me a Reflex tubs wheelset for some time, but my (lack of) riding doesn't justify another set of hoops. Same rider weight as you.

On the other hand, if you have the determination to go with the HED, that would be great also. Nobody ever seems to have them, and we'd love to get some first-hand experience.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:59 pm 
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Location: Back in the saddle...
I have a set of HED C2 laced to Alchemy Orc/Elf. They are my first choice almost every time out. The ride quality is superb, handling phenomenal. My Enve carbon hoops have been relegated to almost exclusive race-day use.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Posts: 2017
Location: Pedal Square
boysa: :thumbup:
Really thinking alu tubs is how connoisseurs distinguish themselves from the crowd these days, with carbon rims being a commodity.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:25 am 
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Thanks for your comments! I agree with the fact that alu tubs are the way how to stand out from the crowd. I don't wanna use aero carbon wheels on daily basis, but the clinchers don't have the aroma of the old good times!

I probably made my mind. Therefore I wanted to go with:

Front wheel
Ambrosio Crono F20
DT Swiss 350 28h
DT Swiss Revolution
Radial lacing

Rear wheel
Ambrosio Crono F20
DT Swiss 350 32h
DT Swiss Revolution
Radial non-drive side
Two-cross for the drive-side

Total weight: 1404g
Total price: 323euro

Do you think the wheels gonna be stiff enough and the lacing pattern is appropriate? Or there is a better way how to build such a wheel-set for this price?

Thanks!

edit// Or go with Novatech Superlight hubs. I don't really love the idea going with Chinese hubs, but they are super cheap (80 euros for both), lighter by 90grams. Thats good. But how is the durability and quality? Anyone has a personal experience?

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I love silence, music, food and deep aero wheels | BMC SLR02 Di2 with Corima Aero "S"


Last edited by GorrGrimWolf on Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
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Location: Pedal Square
Surely a nice wheelset, but maybe not the option matching your "durable enough for everyday use, even during winter" requirement the best.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:22 pm
Posts: 91
I have wheels built up with both Ambrosio Crono and Velocity Escape rims. I'm 65 - 69kg depending on fitness. Both have Vittoria tubs glued on (23mm SC on the Crono, SR (24mm) on the Escapes).

Ambrosio Crono's, DA Hubs and CX Rays (28/28 2x) weigtht 1,380g and give a lovely ride. Great road feel but they're not stiff. 28 or 32 hole and radial lacing probably isn't a good idea (stresses on the flange) especially with a rim as flexy as these.

Velocity Escape, Chris King hubs and CX Rays again (also 28/28 2x). Weight in at 1,350g but the difference is mainly because I used brass nipples on the Crono rear drive side. Road feel isn't as good but they much stiffer and are a much better wheel for the racing I do (mostly crits).

Your post suggests that they will see some abuse so I think the Escapes would be the better rim for you.

UK Velocity supplier (probably useful for Europe) - http://www.bricklanebikes.co.uk/Velocity


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:45 am
Posts: 138
Location: US
I think you made a good choice. I have a buddy who has Ambrosio's laced to DA hubs and they are great wheels. My favorite aluminum tubular set was DT 240s laced to HED Belgium. My set was 28h radial front and 28 2x on the rear. The HEDs are stiff enough that at 75kg the build was sufficient. I think you would be fine with the Ambrosio's.

I don't know if you can get Velocity in CZ but the Velocity Major Tom is pretty much the exact rim as the Belgium C2 and significantly cheaper here in the US. I just built a set of the non-machined with DT 240s as a disc wheelset.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Posts: 1763
Location: Canada
I would have gone Kinlin TB25's 20/24 on Dura Ace 9000 and CX Rays, but that's just me....

Louis :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:01 am 
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I was trying to be reasonable and find something that is gonna suits my needs without much of a compromise.

I mean, I would love to have set of Ambrosio Nemesis as a bombproof wheels, but that would be overkill for racing and I'm nice to my wheels. Cronos or Reflexes would be nice, but I cannot see a reason to buy something with 32spokes and try to save a weight on rims. Also the rim is maybe too narrow and too shallow - too much of a noodles?

So I guess something heavier, more modern and with less number of spokes, with boombproof hubs that manage winter and wet conditions without hesitation is probably the best idea. Also I wanted them mainly as a wheels to wet conditions, so breaking performance is a big deal.

Therefore no cartridge bearings in the hub preferably. But lets see on the budget. Dura-Ace 9000 will be great, but it is expensive. Will it last?

Wider rims like HED C2 Belgium or Kinlin TB25 is great option. Is the HED C2 worth it? I guess Major Tom will be an overkill for my reason. Any other possibilities?

Spokes Sapim Laser or CX Rays. Let's see on the budget. 20/24 or 24/28, radial on the front and 2x on rear...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:52 am 
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Location: Canada
I was pointing out Kinlins because they're a very strong rim, relatively light at around 420g.
That allows you to build a 20/24 or 20/28 very solid wheelset. I run my evryday-training-racing wheelset with DT240 and Alchemy ELF-Sapim CXRay and these rims all year round without any problems at 76 kg.
They're dirt cheap compared to HED (Wheels Manufacturing had them at $24.95/ea. on closeout), so you can save and buy a better hubset, like the Shimano one. DT 340 would be nice too, but on the heavy side, and have cartridge bearings (wich is not that bad). Are they available with 20/24 drillings ?
IMHO, forget Velocity Major Tom unless you run tubulars bigger than 25 mm. I had them and found they weren't the best fit on 23-25 mm road tubulars.
NOTE: Kinlins are 25mm deep, but not a wide rime. They're 18.5 mm wide if I recall, but no problems runnning the with bigger tubulars.

Louis :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:43 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Oldeholtpade
Would advoid Mavic Reflex, braking performance is horribel and i even had to trash a rim when i suddenly hit a pothole and my full weight was forced on my rear wheel. Currently running a Nemesis, wich was a pain to get, but no braking issues

Also the ultegra hubs have some plasticy bits on it wich kinda ruins the astetics and feel of the ''retro'' 32 spoke rims


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:58 am
Posts: 289
@louis: what size tyres are you running on your tb25s? i'm relatively inexperienced wrt glueing tubs, but i was having issues with dry joints and 23s on my tb25s. i think they would take 25s or even cross tyres quite well.


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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:53 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:04 am 
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Location: Canada
I use mostly 22's (Contis and Challenge) and 23's (Vittorias).
Not quite shure I understand what you mean about dry joints. But I don't have any problems at all with the said sizes.
The valve hole is very small, and I've learned with time that it provides a better bond at the valve to let the last layer of glue dry 30-60 minutes before installing the tubular.
After that, I inflate to 120 PSI and put my weight on the wheel, with the valve on the underside of the wheel for a moment, to make shure the area around the valve has an even bond with the rim.
With the shape of the rim bed, I'm shure they can take 25, 27, 28 mm and cross tubs very well.
Hope this helps.

Louis :)


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