HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 93 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Posts: 412
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Yeah it would, but it looks like its still cheaper for me to do this than order the whole thing off bhs.

I might get some no name spokes off eBay, cn spokes would fit the bill and seem light enough

_________________
I'm writing the new weight weenies blog. Hope you like it :)

My SwiftCarbon Ultravox


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 1128
Location: Toronto
What's so terrible about Sapim Race spokes?

nothing IMO

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:03 am 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Posts: 412
Location: Adelaide, Australia
I guess I wanted something more aero... But I'm assuming its marginal gains at best?

_________________
I'm writing the new weight weenies blog. Hope you like it :)

My SwiftCarbon Ultravox


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:21 am 
Offline
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:48 am
Posts: 103
Location: Taiwan
This just popped up on my google alerts.

Please follow this link: http://www.bdopcycling.com/DIY%20WHEELS.asp as we have updated the website to include more options. We will add other kits as the program expands.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:20 am
Posts: 125
istigatrice wrote:
I guess I wanted something more aero... But I'm assuming its marginal gains at best?


1w at 30mph. They are lighter as well. Should save around ~65g vs. the Race spokes. They look pretty cool too. You might e-mail Bdop and see if he can quote you a price minus the spokes and then you can buy the CX-Rays yourself. I know you can buy a completely built up wheel set with those same hubs, rims and CX-Ray spokes for around $525 in the US.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:43 pm 
Offline
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:48 am
Posts: 103
Location: Taiwan
eric wrote:
Historically Novatch hubs have required a spacer change to go from shimano 10sp to campy 11sp. BHS hubs just need a freehub change. So their DS flange spacing is limited to what works with campy 11sp.


That hasn't been the case since the introduction of 11 spd. Now, there is a washer in the sidecaps that is moved from one side to the other when switching between Shimano and Campagnolo with no dishing of the wheel required.

_________________
BDop Cycling Co., Ltd.
www.bdopcycling.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:47 pm 
Offline
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:48 am
Posts: 103
Location: Taiwan
istigatrice wrote:
How do the Novatec spacings compare to something like the alchemy ORC? The front hub is ~20mm narrower - is that going to impact on stiffness much?


The spacing on the front hub is plenty wide enough to make a stiff wheel.

With wider spacing it means placing the flanges directly over the bearing bore. This can be a problem once the wheel is built as it can stretch the bearing bore and cause the bearings to unseat and yield lateral play.

I have seen this many times with other brands. This is why some front hubs don't allow radial lacing.

There are no lacing or weight restrictions, of any kind, with any Novatec hub.

_________________
BDop Cycling Co., Ltd.
www.bdopcycling.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 1813
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Bob could you clarify the flange spacing on the 11sp Novatec?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:46 am 
Offline
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:48 am
Posts: 103
Location: Taiwan
eric wrote:
Bob could you clarify the flange spacing on the 11sp Novatec?


It depends where you measure but the correct drawing was already listed on the previous page.

If you measure from the outside face of the flange, as most do. You end up with 38.15/18.15. For the purpose of calculating spoke length you can use 38/18.

If you also look at the flange dia you have 41/49 which is another method to balance spoke tensions.

This hub has been in production for 7 years. There are a lot of them in existence and their track record is sound. We also offer these with the Anti Bite Guard (ABG) freehubs which reduce gouging of the freehub body by the cassette cogs. This is also another proven product.

_________________
BDop Cycling Co., Ltd.
www.bdopcycling.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Posts: 1128
Location: Toronto
Quote:
If you measure from the outside face of the flange, as most do


I don't know about that, Bob. Don't want to get into a fight with a pro, but that's not my observation. If you google "hub dimensions" I don't see a single drawing that does that - they all measure to the centre of the flange. Here's the first few drawings that show up:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:06 am 
Offline
in the industry
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 634
Location: Ruidoso, NM
dunbar42 wrote:
1w at 30mph.


It's more than that.

_________________
formerly rruff...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 1813
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Bob-

ABG is nice, I wish everyone had that.

Your web site lists the DS flange spacing at 19mm. Seems like that's a typo?

I agree that center of the flange is the norm. In any case the measuring method should be listed on the web page (or provide a link to the diagram) so as to not mislead customers. I'd be unhappy if I bought a hub that I thought had a superior 19mm or pretty good 18.1mm DS flange spacing only to find it was really 16.5mm.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:20 am
Posts: 125
WMW wrote:
dunbar42 wrote:
1w at 30mph.


It's more than that.


November Bicycles tested it in the wind tunnel and that is what they found.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:35 am 
Offline
in the industry
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 634
Location: Ruidoso, NM
dunbar42 wrote:
WMW wrote:
dunbar42 wrote:
1w at 30mph.


It's more than that.


November Bicycles tested it in the wind tunnel and that is what they found.


They measured 11g difference at 30mph for a front wheel... and that was for Lasers, not Race. If you include the rear wheel which has more spokes, and assuming the rear wheel has some drafting, let's say 20g total. Plus they can't measure aero torque drag in the tunnel which should be at least half the translational. Since we are looking only at spokes, I bet it is more than that... but let's say it's 50%. So 30g total at 30mph (13.41 m/s) at sea level. 30g of drag is .294 N of force. CdA= .294 N/(.5*1.2kg/m^3*13.41^2)= .0027.

Someone with a good TT position and equipment will have a CdA of ~.22. So round vs aero spokes is ~1.2% of total aero drag. On a road bike with a CdA of .30 it's .9%. It's not trivial IMO.

_________________
formerly rruff...


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:35 am 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:43 am 
Offline
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:48 am
Posts: 103
Location: Taiwan
eric wrote:
Bob-

ABG is nice, I wish everyone had that.

Your web site lists the DS flange spacing at 19mm. Seems like that's a typo?

I agree that center of the flange is the norm. In any case the measuring method should be listed on the web page (or provide a link to the diagram) so as to not mislead customers. I'd be unhappy if I bought a hub that I thought had a superior 19mm or pretty good 18.1mm DS flange spacing only to find it was really 16.5mm.


The correct drawing has already been posted.

The specs listed on our website are those provided by the manufacturer and in the seven years I've been working with these hubs have yielded correct spoke lengths when used in any calculations.

In terms of an actual technical drawing (as in one you could use to produce a hub vs a simlplified drawing posted on a website) all dimensions are given including flange widths. You need to do a quick bit of math to get the build dimensions you need.

With regards to RCF dimensions, those are pretty much fixed by the component makers. There is a min clearance between the lock ring and the drop out required (for instance it is 1.1mm for Shimano road), there is the height of the cassette (freehub body length) and then there is a specified min clearance between the last cog on the cassette and the hub flange (for spoke clearance). No hub maker can compress these any more as there will be chain line issues and possible problems with chains hitting dropouts or spokes. 18mm is pretty much standard at this point for 10/11 speed hubs unless we move to 135 OLD (or use wafer thin flanges and squeeze out another fraction of a mm).

These are all laid out in the factory technical manuals for Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo.

What can be worked on is the non-drive side of the hub. The whole goal here is to achieve as much stability as possible and to balance spoke tension as close as possible. This can be done a few ways.

Most people thnk that you just need to shove the left flange as far out as possible to do this but this is a gross oversimplification. What can happen (and I have personally seen this with other Taiwan hubs that are all the rage at the moment) is that the flanges get place directly over the bearings and when spoke tension is added it can stretch the bearing bore. This means that the NDS bearing can become unstable and lateral play can develop. This is especially true if the hub shell is made of cheaper alloys to save a buck.

Another way to balance tension is to decrease the NDS flange dia. That may seem counter-intuitive as it seems like you are decreasing the base of the triangle but it has been demonstrated to me by the engineers at Novatec to increase NDS spoke tension.

Another method is to go 2:1. This can work but makes truing a bit more difficult and spreads the same load over fewer spokes. If the rim is not drilled specific to the hub this can shorten spoke life. This is fine for a wheel with all the components designed from scratch to work together but not so much for custom building wheels from off the shelf parts.

My point being that the builds we are offering with the kits have been the exact builds I, and my team mates, have been using for our training wheels for several years without issue.

If these are stable enough to stand up to my heavy olde arse and a ton of 1500w efforts over the years I'm confident that they will be stable enough for anyone else who wants who use them as well. Every part offered in these kits is a mature product that has seen wide distribution for several years and has proven to be reliable.

_________________
BDop Cycling Co., Ltd.
www.bdopcycling.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 93 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: stevec1975 and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Carbon Fiber derailleur pulleys/ good not so good

in Road

oreoboreo

6

531

Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:19 am

oreoboreo View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Shimano Deore XT Hollowtech - what's the deal?

in MTB

kbbpll

7

874

Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:13 pm

kbbpll View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. What's the deal with forward mounted fork sensors?

in Cycle Chat

seanblurr

9

923

Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:36 am

eric View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Dilemma: Cipollini Logos killer deal or stick to BMC SLR01?

[ Go to page: 1, 2, 3 ]

in Road

vlastrada

31

3548

Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:16 pm

HammerTime2 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. PowerTap SLC+ - any good?

in Road

Bregnhoj

5

697

Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:45 pm

showdown View the latest post


It is currently Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:35 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB