BDOP DIY build kit, good deal?

[notherwtweenie]

If that is what I saw I would simply say it. Knowing how anno works, how the rims are produced and looking at your photos I know what you are suggesting is not possible. I am 100% on that but this really isn't the point.

Regardless of the cause we were prepared to offer you a discount (partial refund) on the shipment just for the inconvenience you experienced and even suggested a simple, proven method to alleviate the problem entirely. We never had a chance to make the offer as things spiraled out of control very quickly after that.

We have tried to resolve this several times and been rebuked at every turn. Instead we find ourselves sniping at each other in a public forum and although I do quite enjoy it as it can be very entertaining I am pretty much done. Unless you can come up with some fresh material I don't think there is any more fun to be had here.

Why quit now?

What do you know about anodizing that makes the scenario a 100% improbability?

Are you leaving as a matter of convenience?

[notherwtweenie]

................Regardless of the cause we were prepared to offer you a discount (partial refund) on the shipment just for the inconvenience you experienced and even suggested a simple, proven method to alleviate the problem entirely. We never had a chance to make the offer as things spiraled out of control very quickly after that.

We have tried to resolve this several times and been rebuked at every turn. Instead we find ourselves sniping at each other in a public forum and although I do quite enjoy it as it can be very entertaining I am pretty much done. Unless you can come up with some fresh material I don't think there is any more fun to be had here.

You've brought up how BDop (paraphrasing) tried to make it right several times and I haven't responded - I would very much like to, and will but the conversation is already difficult to follow, so for now I'd like to stay focused on one item at a time.

[BobDopolina]

You've brought up how BDop (paraphrasing) tried to make it right several times and I haven't responded - I would very much like to, and will but the conversation is already difficult to follow, so for now I'd like to stay focused on one item at a time.

So even after being offered a full refund, refusing that refund and launching a PayPal dispute (which will get you what beyond a full refund, exactly?) you actually think I am going to continue to indulge you for several more pages? Ad infinitum?

You are indeed epic. In fact, you have inched ever so much closer to being declared my " Arch Nemesis Whose Name Can Not Be Spoken".

There has been a vacancy for a while but that doesn't mean the position will be filled lightly. You have much work to do if you aspire to earn that moniker.

Have at it (but do it alone, preferably in private)!

[rmerka]

Question notherwtweenie, why didn't you just take the refund, or an exchange if you didn't scratch the rim and the hub is in fact as you show? Do you have some other unspoken "axe to grind"? It seems as if BDOP has offered you a fair deal.

[notherwtweenie]

Question notherwtweenie, why didn't you just take the refund, or an exchange if you didn't scratch the rim and the hub is in fact as you show? Do you have some other unspoken "axe to grind"? It seems as if BDOP has offered you a fair deal.

BDop never offered a refund...

I bought the kit July 23rd, I got it around July 30th, I asked for a refund on August 6, it wasn't until two days ago that BDop agreed but with stipulations and no time limit specified for re-imbursment.

At this point it seemed like trying my luck through PayPal as an intermediary was a better option.

[notherwtweenie]

You've brought up how BDop (paraphrasing) tried to make it right several times and I haven't responded - I would very much like to, and will but the conversation is already difficult to follow, so for now I'd like to stay focused on one item at a time.

So even after being offered a full refund, refusing that refund and launching a PayPal dispute (which will get you what beyond a full refund, exactly?) you actually think I am going to continue to indulge you for several more pages? Ad infinitum?

You are indeed epic. In fact, you have inched ever so much closer to being declared my " Arch Nemesis Whose Name Can Not Be Spoken".

There has been a vacancy for a while but that doesn't mean the position will be filled lightly. You have much work to do if you aspire to earn that moniker.

Have at it (but do it alone, preferably in private)!

Ha ha! This persona is quite a bit different than the email persona isn't it?

[notherwtweenie]

Do I have this right so far?


Me: Rims have some scratches but I can live with them if the hubs are fixed.

BDop: Shipping may have done it.

Me: [Pictures showing boxes]

BDop: You did it.

Me: No, I didn't.

BDop: Yes, you did.

Me: How can you be so certain?

BDop: Because the scratches look shinny.

Me: But that is just light reflecting, here's a close up photo.

BDop: I stand by what I said.

Me: Will you abide by what a metallurgist has to say about it?

BDop: Crickets.

Board member: Hey there's annodizing over the scratch.

BDop: "You guys are awesome...if you scratch the rim first, then anno, the scratch will be black..."

Me: But the photo does show black over the scratch.

BDop: "It is either a shadow or the cut didn't penetrate..."

Board member: "I don't think that's a shadow and it's definitely deeper than microns, your words..."

BDop: I know how anno works. I know how the rims are produced. I can look at a photo any photo in any light at any distance and pronounce with 100% certainty when a scratch did or did not occur. I can't tell you how I do that, that is a secret.

[djay001]

No offence, but looking at your post count, did you sign up specifically to shill against BDop? I've bought from these guys many times before and they have been trouble free and treated me well when I did have trouble.

More you talk and more i tend to agree with this post,
It's a bit strange to go on like this even when there is a potential arrangement.


I have already been defrauded(i'm not sure of the translation, fraudé) by C-4 shop, this as been talk on this forum and i was not the only one. I just never received my rims, and the guy know it and each time i talk to him he just said that he will refund me or he will ship the rim, but nothing never happen, he always got and excuse.

In your case, you seems to don't want to get the arrangement..... and you just come back with the same story to show that to everyone....


I build some Wheelset each year and maybe after my few next build i will get that kit too, i curious to see these part and these novatec hub compared to the BHS i usually got.
BobDopolina have great product and lot of good feedback on this forum, i'm not afraid to deal with it.

[bombertodd]

I think he wants all of his money back. Why should he have to pay (even partially) for BDoP's mistake? I'd want all my money back. I would have opened up a dispute with my credit card company by now.


BDop:
"Regardless of the cause we were prepared to offer you a discount (partial refund) on the shipment just for the inconvenience you experienced and even suggested a simple, proven method to alleviate the problem entirely. We never had a chance to make the offer as things spiraled out of control very quickly after that."

[BobDopolina]

A full and complete refund was offered in our email to the "customer" 07 August.

The "customer" did not repsond to that email. He joined WW and started this thread instead.

When it was pointed out that he hadn't responded to our email, he finally responded and refused the refund. He chose to do a PayPal dispute instead because he said we would never ACTUALLY refund the money into his account.

Why I know the scratches came after anno and after shipping:

1. Alloy rims are extruded, cut, rolled, joined, drilled, polished, ANNODIZED and MACHINED in that order.
2. For the anno step the ENTIRE rim is dipped in the bath so the ENTIRE rim is BLACK (or whatever anno colour is being used).
3. The brake tracks are then machined. If there was a scratch in the brake track prior to maching it would still show up as BLACK in the BRAKE TRACK becaue the machining doesn't go that deep.

So, if the scratch occured before anno it would all be black.

After machining the rims are HAND QC'd for visual anomolies LIKE SCREATCHES or ANNO defects.

The rims are then individually wrapped and then bundled in cardboard and then put in a box (so thats one layer of plastic and two layers of cardboard for each rim.

The rims are then shipped to us (about 30 minutes away). If a box arrives damaged in any way it is pulled apart and each item is inspected before we sign off on delivery. This has not happened with any KinLin shipment (the rim maker).

The rims then sit in our warehouse for however long in the original shipping packaging.

The rims were then taken from these boxes and bundled into our kits where they awaited sale.

All of the parts included in the kit are individually wrapped and then boxed. There is nothing floating around inside a kit box that could work its way through several layers of cardboard and bubble wrap, without damaging any of it, scratch the rims...twice...(the size of a human hair) and then work it's way back inside the parts box or dissapear magically alltogether.

Once again I roll my eyes in your general direction.

[BobDopolina]

I think he wants all of his money back. Why should he have to pay (even partially) for BDoP's mistake? I'd want all my money back. I would have opened up a dispute with my credit card company by now.


BDop:
"Regardless of the cause we were prepared to offer you a discount (partial refund) on the shipment just for the inconvenience you experienced and even suggested a simple, proven method to alleviate the problem entirely. We never had a chance to make the offer as things spiraled out of control very quickly after that."

That quote is not in context.

This was the first offer. We said we would replace the hubs (and had planned to upgrade the freehub to ABG) and were also going to offer a discount for the scratches (even though we don't believe that were scratched when shipped).

From Timothy's email 07 Aug:

"Regarding the hubs, if you are concerned about the beveling please return them to us at the address listed below. We will inspect them and either return or replace them based on what we see in person.

If we warranty one or both hubs we will refund the shipping charges to you. If they are considered within spec we will return the hubs to you at our expense.".

"Customer" 07 Aug:

"In the meantime, given the totality of the condition of this wheelset & the difficulty of resolving issues I would like to officially ask for a full & immediate refund.
Timothy, I’m asking that you forward this & all of our correspondence to Bob Dopolina so I can be assured he is aware of how his CS is representing him."

Timothy 07 Aug:

"Again, this was in an effort to address your concerns and to resolve the issues that you raised. This proposal still stands. If you would like to return the hubs for inspection we would accept them. If a defect is found the shipping charges would be refunded into your PayPal account and replacements would be sent at our expense.

Please let me know what your final decision is as I can deal with the above suggestions myself but a complete refund (minus return shipping) would need to pass through Mr Dopolina who has now been made aware of these issues and our correspondence."

"Customer" - No response

"Customer" 11 Aug:

Joins WW and starts thread.

BDop in thread 18 Aug:

"If you would like to now respond to the email we can go from there. If you would like to continue with a line by line public shaming we can also go that route but I doubt the outcomes will be the same."

"Customer" 18 Aug in email:

"There's no way I'm going to pay for return shipping on stuff that should have never gotten boxed up much less past QC. No fault on my end, it's all on yours. Nothing's changed, I'm still asking for a full & immediate refund."

BDop 18 Aug in email:

"Regarding your request for a refund, here is my view and my proposal:

Reviewing our Terms and Conditions regarding the warranty process item #5 clearly states that shipping costs will be shared. Honestly, we've never charged anyone for warranty shipping and never will. That point is there to discourage fraudulent claims. It is, however, our stated policy.

Our intended offer was a $25.00US discount on the order and immediate replacement of the hubs (with an ABG upgrade) and to cover all of the shipping costs. Although we felt that this would not restore your faith in us we felt is was a fair deal and the matter would be closed.

We never got to make the offer.

At this point I feel it best to simply cut our losses as you requested. I have authorized the following procedure and ask that you follow it:

1. Repack and ship the package to the address previously provided via EMS (USPS),
2. Scan the invoice with shipping charges and tracking number visible and send it to us (in pdf format if possible),
3. Once we receive and verify the return we will refund your purchase price plus the return shipping into your PayPal account."

"Customer" 19 Aug:

"PayPal has a dispute resolution center just for this type of circumstance.
You should be able to appreciate my concern of sending off my merchandise on a hope & prayer that I’ll be fully reimbursed in a timely manner."

"Customer" then returns to WW thread and continues posting.

[notherwtweenie]

I think he wants all of his money back. Why should he have to pay (even partially) for BDoP's mistake? I'd want all my money back. I would have opened up a dispute with my credit card company by now.


BDop:
"Regardless of the cause we were prepared to offer you a discount (partial refund) on the shipment just for the inconvenience you experienced and even suggested a simple, proven method to alleviate the problem entirely. We never had a chance to make the offer as things spiraled out of control very quickly after that."

That quote is not in context.

This was the first offer. We said we would replace the hubs (and had planned to upgrade the freehub to ABG) and were also going to offer a discount for the scratches (even though we don't believe that were scratched when shipped).

From Timothy's email 07 Aug:

"Regarding the hubs, if you are concerned about the beveling please return them to us at the address listed below. We will inspect them and either return or replace them based on what we see in person.

If we warranty one or both hubs we will refund the shipping charges to you. If they are considered within spec we will return the hubs to you at our expense.".

"Customer" 07 Aug:

"In the meantime, given the totality of the condition of this wheelset & the difficulty of resolving issues I would like to officially ask for a full & immediate refund.
Timothy, I’m asking that you forward this & all of our correspondence to Bob Dopolina so I can be assured he is aware of how his CS is representing him."

Timothy 07 Aug:

"Again, this was in an effort to address your concerns and to resolve the issues that you raised. This proposal still stands. If you would like to return the hubs for inspection we would accept them. If a defect is found the shipping charges would be refunded into your PayPal account and replacements would be sent at our expense.

Please let me know what your final decision is as I can deal with the above suggestions myself but a complete refund (minus return shipping) would need to pass through Mr Dopolina who has now been made aware of these issues and our correspondence."

"Customer" - No response

"Customer" 11 Aug:

Joins WW and starts thread.

BDop in thread 18 Aug:

"If you would like to now respond to the email we can go from there. If you would like to continue with a line by line public shaming we can also go that route but I doubt the outcomes will be the same."

"Customer" 18 Aug in email:

"There's no way I'm going to pay for return shipping on stuff that should have never gotten boxed up much less past QC. No fault on my end, it's all on yours. Nothing's changed, I'm still asking for a full & immediate refund."

BDop 18 Aug in email:

"Regarding your request for a refund, here is my view and my proposal:

Reviewing our Terms and Conditions regarding the warranty process item #5 clearly states that shipping costs will be shared. Honestly, we've never charged anyone for warranty shipping and never will. That point is there to discourage fraudulent claims. It is, however, our stated policy.

Our intended offer was a $25.00US discount on the order and immediate replacement of the hubs (with an ABG upgrade) and to cover all of the shipping costs. Although we felt that this would not restore your faith in us we felt is was a fair deal and the matter would be closed.

We never got to make the offer.

At this point I feel it best to simply cut our losses as you requested. I have authorized the following procedure and ask that you follow it:

1. Repack and ship the package to the address previously provided via EMS (USPS),
2. Scan the invoice with shipping charges and tracking number visible and send it to us (in pdf format if possible),
3. Once we receive and verify the return we will refund your purchase price plus the return shipping into your PayPal account."

"Customer" 19 Aug:

"PayPal has a dispute resolution center just for this type of circumstance.
You should be able to appreciate my concern of sending off my merchandise on a hope & prayer that I’ll be fully reimbursed in a timely manner."

"Customer" then returns to WW

Nice Bob - posting your customer's private emails? What's next credit card info?

Dates and facts wrong too.

Another window into the character of the BDop organization.

[notherwtweenie]

A full and complete refund was offered in our email to the "customer" 07 August.

The "customer" did not repsond to that email. He joined WW and started this thread instead.

When it was pointed out that he hadn't responded to our email, he finally responded and refused the refund. He chose to do a PayPal dispute instead because he said we would never ACTUALLY refund the money into his account....

No refund offer was made that day, just an offer to CONSIDER replacing the hubs if I paid to send them back for inspection.

I have all my emails including all emails sent to spam and none are from BDop.

August 6th AM USA time
Me: "...given the totality of the condition of this wheelset & the difficulty of resolving issues I would like to officially ask for a full & immediate refund."

August 6th PM USA time (August 7 Taiwan time)
BDop: "...a complete refund (minus return shipping) would need to pass through Mr Dopolina who has now been made aware of these issues..."

That was the last I heard from BDop until after I posted my review here August 18.

Then BDop agreed to a refund BUT with some terms.

At that point I considered my options and decided to use PayPal as an intermediary for a refund.

BDop has maybe seven or eight more days to respond to my claim.

That's where we're at and that's the truth.

[shimmeD]

Don't you two think we've had enough?
Don't you think we get your stories?

[shimmeD]

Deleted double post