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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:12 am 
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I am considering buying a pair of NOS Nisi G27 tubular rims ( low profile box section rims, double eyelets, 32 hole, circa 1990 ) and lacing them to new record hubs 2x front 3x rear with Sapim cx ray's and brass nipples of course. retro gone all black :). Does anyone have experience lacing up old rims to modern, i.e. campy 9 speed and above, spaced hubs?.
I have heard / read that the tension required to hold the dish for modern rear hubs places undue stress on older rims causing them to fail, particularly drive side.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:18 am 
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A good builder can make them up into some decent wheels, but you won't have the quality and durability you'd get with a modern rim. You can't get the same tension, and they won't handle the more pronounced differential tension in the rear.

Another issue with those rims is that the braking surfaces have very little vertical height. Your brake blocks on modern brakes are taller than the braking surfaces, so to keep them from wearing through the tire casing you have to mount them low on the rim. That causes you to develop a ledge on the brake block as the rim wears only part of the block. After a certain point, they either don't release properly or they tend to warp downwards and make your braking deteriorate.

Lastly, there are advantages to a slightly wider rim. Those old Nisi's are particularly narrow -- more like 18.5 mm or so. For most modern tubulars in a 23 or 25 mm width, a 23 mm rim gives several advantages.

I used to ride -- and love -- Ambrosio Nemesis rims and a few older rims like the very rare ridged hard anodized Araya tubular rims (best box section tubular rim I ever saw). These days, I just recommend modern rims.


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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:18 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:40 am 
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cheers for the advice... confirmation of my suspicions... thinking Mavic reflex instead, any experience with these?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:11 am 
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Everything I have is as you describe.
    Mavic GL330 on DT240S - No issues after 5 years
    Ambrosio Giro d'Italia on DT240S - No problem after 4 years
    FIR SC170 on Record - no problem after 4 years including a spell on my cross bike

All these are 32's built 2X & 2X/3X. I wouldn't use CX Rays on a shallow rim build with 32 front & rear. Lasers, 2X front and the same on the rear but 2X/3X, with brass nipples all round.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:11 am 
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I have several NOS rims lying around. None of them are as good as some of the high end modern rims, so I wouldn't bother with lacing them into a wheelset. Some of my rims are very rare and go for a lot of money on Ebay. So I do hope that one day some fool will pay big bucks for them :mrgreen:
I did lace a couple of them up years ago and was kind of disappointed. Sure, they were very cool, but nowhere near the same quality as a modern rim...


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:16 am 
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I'd take any 90's Mavic tubular rim over Reflexes, except GEL280's & CX18's which are too delicate now as they were when new. Ambrosio's Nemesis & Crono are pretty much unchanged from their initial iterations and still piss all over a Reflex too.

If you're referring to clinchers I'd have to agree with you as long as we exclude Mavic Open Pro rims.

When the spoke count drops then modern rims in both tub & clincher are the only way to go.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:25 am 
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You need a high spoke count with an older rim. Most are 32 or 36 hole. And let's be honest, how many wheels are being built with 32 3x lacing nowadays? I used to be a big fan of 32 3x lacing, untill I discovered that my 20f radial and 24r 2x wheels are strong enough for my weight (65kg), are a lot lighter and even slightly more aero.
My 32 3x wheels are now dedicated to winter riding and commuting... Sadly they just won't wear out, because I would love to buy some more modern wheels :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:31 am 
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I'm riding 2 sets of Mavic Reflex Ceramics that are circa 10yrs old (not as old as the OP's intended rim, but still far from 'current'). Both sets are 36h rear, 28h front (nobody stocks the 32h anymore) on WI T11 hubs.

Weight? Meh. Sometimes I wonder why I'm even a member of this forum on that front... but with ride quality like this - especially on Veloflex Arenbergs - and such good braking, who effin' cares about weight?!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:18 am 
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I have been using NOS mavic open 4 cd on 2010 Campagnolo record hubs. Work fine and look great after 3 years.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:02 pm 
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Would there be any benefit to the rear wheel in running cx-rays 3x drive side 2x lasers non drive side; so as to improve power transfer, and in that vain even running sapim race instead of cx-ray.?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:04 pm 
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On an old rim with that many spokes, why bother? You won't feel the difference. Just use Sapim Race laced 3x.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:18 pm 
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[quote="BikeTart"]On an old rim with that many spokes, why bother? ..."

Just because you can ... for fun! then race 'em and see if you can make 'em go fast... ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:09 pm 
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Nah, Lasers all round.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:23 pm 
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albo wrote:
Would there be any benefit to the rear wheel in running cx-rays 3x drive side 2x lasers non drive side; so as to improve power transfer, and in that vain even running sapim race instead of cx-ray.?


CX-Rays and Lasers have the same stiffness, so you could use either on the NDS and front. Round spokes will have more aero drag but are more fitting the "classic" style. These aren't going to be your really fast wheels anyway.

It is best to use heavier spokes on the DS to help keep the NDS spokes from going slack... like Sapim Race or DT Aero Comp.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:26 pm 
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Also thin spokes on a light flexible rim means a flexible wheel. With sapim race spokes you have a fighting chance of avoiding spoke breakages.

Ambrosio Nemesis rims are actually quite stiff built onto record hubs with sapim race spokes you have a very nice and durable wheelset. 23mm wide rims like the HED Belgian C2 are just alot stiffer which is good too.

3x DS and 2x NDS does not improve power transfer over 3x/3x. also 3x/2x has a marginally worse tension balance.

Modern rims even ones like ambrosio nemesis which have been around forever are far more reliable and better in every way than early 90's tubulars. However what the worst that can happen, you don't like them and end rebuilding with modern rims.

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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:26 pm 


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