Chris King R45 Issue

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

I have a set of CK R45 built with Pacenti SL23. I am having a problem with the wheels moving in the dropouts under hard efforts.

At first I noticed a lot of creaking when I used this wheelset which would be reduced if I tightened the quick release. It was bad enough yesterday that I hopped off my bike and grabbed the stem with one hand and the top of the front wheel with the other. I could with some effort yank the wheel back and forth in the dropouts! No movement from the rear but there is some creaking.

I happened to be using Zipp quick releases circa 2008 - the black ones with the titanium skewers. I always thought they were decent and on this occasion I had them quite tight having already increased the tension earlier in the ride. IMO any tighter would have been too tight by any reasonable standard.

It hasn't escaped my notice that the end caps on the front CK hub are perfectly smooth where they interface with the dropout. The rear has "teeth" on the drive side only. I have multiple other sets built on Shimano Dura Ace and other brands of hubs. All have "teeth". Zero noise or movement from them even with a loose quick release.

Any tips? I know some lube will quiet things down temporarily but the movement is still there, probably worse with lube. Any chance a different design of quick release would help?

Anybody else had this issue?

Looks like Mr. Gib got it wrong with these hubs.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

by Weenie


grnrcr
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:23 am

by grnrcr

Dura-ace QR. Problem solved.

Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

grnrcr are you speculating or have you solved this very issue using Dura Ace QR? This was my planned course of action. The one piece clamping mechanism on the DA looks like it will be better able to resist movement. Added bonus with the Dura Ace QR is that if I ever need to, I can beat a grizzly bear to death with it.

The CK end cap design does leave me wondering though.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Zakalwe
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:15 pm

by Zakalwe

How often do you clean your bike? Maybe some wax/silicon residue on the dropouts is adding to the issue - a judicial smear of carbon friction paste may help?

mattr
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Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Mr.Gib wrote:The CK end cap design does leave me wondering though.
Pretty sure one of the requirements (CEN? BS? ISO?) requires end caps and/or skewers on built complete bikes to actually be able to mark the surface of the drop out.
I know this isn't a built complete bike, and pretty sure that no one provides king hubs on bikes that would need to meet these standards, but it does make you wonder.
Smooth cap to save machining time?
Smooth cap to make sure it lasts longer?
Smooth cap as the metal is too soft to mark the drop out anyway (would need a steel insert, which i've seen on some hubs before now).

Maybe try to get some largish serrated washers to fit over the axle 10mm ID, 17/18mm OD. Blob of glue to stop them falling off, job done.

Zakalwe
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by Zakalwe

Are the skewers smooth as well? If they've got teeth then surely that would hold the hub in place, unless the skewer and hub are a bit on the loose side when mated.

Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

Quick release clamping surface has teeth. Pretty sure they all do.

As for the cleaning question, my bikes are cleaned after every ride. No contamination in dropouts.

mattr - Interesting - I didn't know that about a standard for end caps. Makes sense. Can't figure out what CK thinks they are gaining by leaving the contact surfaces smooth. Insignificant cost savings on such an expensive hub.

Gluing a serrated washer? Would probably work but that is way too ghetto for me. I'll try a Dura Ace QR and if that doesn't work I'll just give the wheels to my wife. She's too light to have any issues.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Zakalwe
Posts: 401
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:15 pm

by Zakalwe

Mr.Gib wrote:As for the cleaning question, my bikes are cleaned after every ride. No contamination in dropouts.


That was my point, whatever cleaning product you use could potentially leave an unwanted lubricant on the contact area. If there's no grip afforded from the smooth surface, add your own with that fine grit carbon assembly paste stuff.

mattr
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by mattr

Mr.Gib wrote:Quick release clamping surface has teeth. Pretty sure they all do.
Nah, i've got some lighweight skewers in a box somewhere with no serrations (they weren't cheap either!), i only used them with Shimano hubs, so never really caused a problem, just got some better ones (heavier but a better mechanism, and serrations) so retired the old ones. Must be 15 years old, so no great hardship!

Mr.Gib
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

Zakalwe wrote:
Mr.Gib wrote:As for the cleaning question, my bikes are cleaned after every ride. No contamination in dropouts.


That was my point, whatever cleaning product you use could potentially leave an unwanted lubricant on the contact area. If there's no grip afforded from the smooth surface, add your own with that fine grit carbon assembly paste stuff.


Good tip on the carbon paste, thanks - don't know why I hadn't thought of that.
I only clean with a dry cloth, sometimes a touch of water.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

smkane9
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:45 pm

by smkane9

Have you checked the preload? I have CK classics and over the first few months of ownership I've had to set the preload to prevent the wheel from moving side to side when clamped in.

Mr.Gib
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Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

Preload is good. Loose pre-load allows movement with no effort so it is distinct from the movement of the entire hub in the dropouts which requires some force. But yeah that can be another issue that that IMO makes CK inferior to Dura Ace in the hub department.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Causidicus
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by Causidicus

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Last edited by Causidicus on Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

No it hasn't. However I like Campagnolo hub design even more shame they are 32H only.

by Weenie


Causidicus
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:20 am

by Causidicus

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Last edited by Causidicus on Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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