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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:59 pm 
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A couple of weeks back, standing by the side of the road in rain, the thought occurred that I have done this too often. No more frkn flats, I am going tubeless on this bike. So now I am in possession of a pair of Fusion 3 tubeless. For the scheduled installation onto wheels with Velocity A23 rims I found the Stan's kit for Hope Hoops. At £22 it's cheaper than the individual sum of its parts. Here's what you get.

Image

The instructions seemed to me surprising, here is the printed sheet.

Image

Their process is:
- install 'your tube and tire' (?) to 2.4 bar.
- Remove tube and tire
- install the tire to 2.8 bar
- deflate the tire
- add sealant
- re-inflate tire.

This seems like a painfully protracted process, when I did my gigantex wheels I just added sealant and inflated then rode. What's the rationale with all these repeated steps, anyone know?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:10 pm 
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I think the first two steps is a one time deal for pressing the tape down.

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Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:10 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:21 pm 
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I didn't do steps 3 and 4.

I did this on my mountain wheels. With Specialized 2Bliss tires.

1. Taped rims, 2 layers on each rim
2. Cut hole for valve stems
3. Install stems
4. Add sealant, install tire. Set the bead on one side of the rim, poured in the Stan's, set the other side of the tire on the rim
5. Used air compressor or CO2 to air up tire and "pop" the bead
6. Ride

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:51 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Installing a tube first compresses the tape to help ensure that it doesn't leak air.

When I did my mtb wheels (29" 2blis tires) I did it that way. It takes a few more minutes per wheel.

I didn't need a compressor- the floor pump worked.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:59 pm 
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likewise.. tape the rim (one time process)
put valve on (one time process)
put tires on (one time process for that tire)
pour some sealant in the tire by using the valve (after removing the core) - you don't need to open one side of the tire bead...
use compressor OR co2 (both work plenty fine) to seat the tire (=inflate first time). hand pump = terribly hard.
shake the wheel, make sure it doesnt leak (push on the tire sidewalls until its all super well seated (one time process for that tire)
deflate if you used co2, reinflate with hand pump (now its super easy)

note: the co2 instructions are specific because you can't leave the co2 with the sealant, it dries it somehow (despite what some say, i got mine to dry like that as well, it just takes a bit of time, but much less than without co2)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:15 pm 
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Location: Reading, UK
Thanks for the views.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:04 am 
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Road tubeless isn't going to fix your flat problem. Sealant doesn't work very well at road pressures.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:11 am 
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Stan's sealant will work on small holes, but nothing more than 1/16 to 1/8 inch. Make a homebrew sealant. 2 parts Stan's to 1 part Slime sealant works for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:55 am 
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weenie wrote:

note: the co2 instructions are specific because you can't leave the co2 with the sealant, it dries it somehow (despite what some say, i got mine to dry like that as well, it just takes a bit of time, but much less than without co2)


I used a 16gr CO2 to air up the tire. It wasn't enough to "pop" the bead...but it was enough to seat the bead. I had to use a floor pump to pop the bead.

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eurperg wrote:
My wife is sitting next to me, and just thought that was a dildo, not a saddle.. :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:45 pm 
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FIJIGabe wrote:
Stan's sealant will work on small holes, but nothing more than 1/16 to 1/8 inch.


Where I am, southern England, the prevailing geology is chalk. Chalk includes flints and flints over time shatter into pieces. The typical culprit for a flat round here is a small fragment of flint lodging in the tyre carcass and piercing the inner tube. I'd say that covers 90% of flats I see that are caused by an external agent and my hope/expectation is that sealant will be effective in minimising air loss and preventing pressure going to zero.

Some other flats arise from installation problems such as latex tubes getting trapped under tyre beads. They shouldn't be an issue any more with a system comprising fewer separate elements.

That leaves larger gashes as being the ones that sealant will be ineffective against. I don't see too many of those, touch wood. Recovery action could be to try using with a normal inner tube as a get-me-home. I see also there are now tubeless tyre repair kits, has anyone used these, are they feasible for roadside repair?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:41 pm 
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Normal patches will work on a tubeless tire - you just patch from the inside. However, sealant makes it almost impossible to adhere. Getting the sealant off the inside of the tire roadside is a serious pain. And then you have to reseat the tire, which is impossible IMO with a frame pump on an older tire. CO2 works usually, but its not completely reliable. In my experience, anything that stans won't hold to 40psi, isn't worth patching anyways. There's very few gashes worth fixing that sealant won't seal, but I've had a couple cases in 6ish sets of tubeless tires: the symptom is usually when the tire will lose pressure within a couple hours and drop down to about 40 psi. (latest case of this was when the wife ran over a staple gun and shot it through the tire, leaving two 1/8" gashes)

Also, if the gash would require a tire boot with a normal tube it isn't going to be patchable anyways - the patch gets pushed out through the hole in the tire, and ruptures pretty quickly.

I've had multiple instances of gashes sealing to 40ish psi using stans: Its not great, but its enough to get you home, and oftentimes beats installing a boot, and tube...which is messy as all hell as the remnants of sealant get everywhere on the roadside pretty easily. This usually means buying a new tire unfortunately.

Sealant does wonders with pinhole punctures though - My commute has a section of freeway that has a lot of little wires from tires disintegrating that are murder on normal tubes/tires, and tubeless just seems to ignore. We also get a lot of thorns in the fall, which my tubeless setup is pretty impervious to.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:59 pm 
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eric wrote:
Installing a tube first compresses the tape to help ensure that it doesn't leak air.
When I did my mtb wheels (29" 2blis tires) I did it that way. It takes a few more minutes per wheel.
I didn't need a compressor- the floor pump worked.


So I've installed Fusion3 tubeless on these wheels with Velocity A23 rims. For thoroughness, I did do the step of putting a conventional tyre and tube on the wheel after taping it. As you should be able to see below, this step did make the tape conform well to the shape of the rim. The subsequent installation of the tubeless tyre was straightforward and the tyre inflated easily with a floor pump.

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:07 pm 
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aaric wrote:
Normal patches will work on a tubeless tire - you just patch from the inside. However, sealant makes it almost impossible to adhere.


Again, YMMV, but in the instances where I have had to patch my tire, I've been able to clear off the inside of the tire pretty effectively using soap and water, and finishing it off with 80 grit sandpaper to rough up the surface. However, I have never been able to patch a tire on the road. For that, I carry a Park Tools boot (or use an energy gel packet) and put a standard tube in it.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:17 pm 
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Fair enough - I was speaking in the context of a roadside repair :)


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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:17 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:12 am 
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Getter wrote:
weenie wrote:

note: the co2 instructions are specific because you can't leave the co2 with the sealant, it dries it somehow (despite what some say, i got mine to dry like that as well, it just takes a bit of time, but much less than without co2)


I used a 16gr CO2 to air up the tire. It wasn't enough to "pop" the bead...but it was enough to seat the bead. I had to use a floor pump to pop the bead.

the pop sound is when the bead seats :P

--

other than that ive glue and a tube in case something goes bad. ive yet to have a tubeless flat tho. seriously. i did roll on glass more than once because "traffic or glass, i take glass"
just the fact that you can't pinch flat helps a lot.


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