Creaky BB in Ti frame - Should I grease the cups?

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cmcdonnell
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by cmcdonnell

My bike (lLitespeed T1) is creaking when the left pedal is at about enter the drive phase when seated and terrible when out of the saddle. I've tried different pedals, tightened everything to correct torques etc repressed the PF30 cups. It sounds like the left side BB. It is a Campagnolo SR UT PF30 BB. The CULT bearings were clean and seem smooth. Only think I can think of is I haven't greases the cups when the bearings go into, I just gave them a wipe with GT85 as I didn't want any grease in the CULT bearings. What should I do? The setup has done about 3000 miles, mostly dry except for a few soakings over the last few weeks. The noise was present before but much less noticeable.
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

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Valbrona
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by Valbrona

More likely movement of the cup or cups in the BB shell. You need a Loctite retainer.

cmcdonnell
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by cmcdonnell

That sounds a pain... the cups do seem tight... what would I need to do, hammer them out? I'm new to all this press fit stuff and so far I hate it! Used to be so simple...
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

cmcdonnell
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by cmcdonnell

Feeling stupid now. Just taken the cranks off and there's a white bearing cover (race?) inside the BB shell that I assume is to cover the bearings? I can't see it an any schematic as most seem to show the bearing open. I'm guessing this goes over the bearings before I put the wavy washer in...
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

cmcdonnell
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:50 pm

by cmcdonnell

Actually i think its a dust cover on the inside of the cup... can't seem to get it back in now
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

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bikerjulio
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by bikerjulio

The white ring inside the pressed-in cup is the inner seal. It serves to keep any water that finds it's way into the BB shell from getting into the bearing. If you have a sealed BB shell, as many are today, the seal is really not needed.

Since the advent of PF30 frames, there have been complaints about Campy's PF30 cups creaking. You can try loctite on the cup, and I believe current instructions reccomend it, or just chuck them and go with an aftermarket BB like Praxis. http://www.praxiscycles.com/product/conv-bb-campagnolo/

There are other similar solutions. Google will help. The good news is that once the current cups are removed, there's no special tools required to install the BB.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

I'm a big fan of Praxis converter BBs. I have the Sram PF30 converter BB and it's very solid and smooth. Absolutely no noise due to Praxis unique collet design that pulls the two bearings cups tightly together so the bearings are always in perfect alignment.

Designed as a proper BB for installing Campagnolo Ultra Torque cranks in either BB30, PF30, or Specialized’s OSBB frames. Our patent pending design keeps the bearings outboard of the frame right on Campagnolo spec for greater rigidity and free of frame/c-clip tolerance issues that other systems deal with.

Simply press in the longer non-drive-cup, then the shorter drive cup threads into it. As the drive cup threads in, our trademark Collet system expands to a precise limit evenly dispersing pressure for a super tight fit. With both cups connected and our collet set exactly to spec, there is no chance the bearings can come out of alignment or wiggle/walk out of the frame. This design also uses a compressible o-ring on the non-drive side cup to compensate for frame shell width discrepancies.


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cmcdonnell
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by cmcdonnell

thanks guys, that does look a good solution.... why the hell don't Campy and Shimano use something like that...
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

RyanH
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by RyanH

Does it make noise if you squeeze the crank arm against the frame? If not, it's probably not the BB. Did you check the chainring bolts? Skewers?

cmcdonnell
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by cmcdonnell

RyanH wrote:Does it make noise if you squeeze the crank arm against the frame? If not, it's probably not the BB. Did you check the chainring bolts? Skewers?


I can't make it creak in the stand but have checked chain ring bolts and skewers and pedals... Tried riding no handed and big and little ring and it creaks in all cases when pushing hard
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

RyanH
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by RyanH

I've had a headset that did that, no handed too.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Welcome to pressfit, and titanium, and water. Ok, how old are the campy cups that are in the frame? I ask because the earlier ones had a flange that wasn't very deep and were prone to coming loose, and hence, creaking. The new ones are deeper, however they can still creak if not installed right.
You are using the SR cranks with cult bearings. They do not need seals, but the cups come with them, since they are used for other levels like Chorus and Record. I believe that is the "white thing" you're seeing in there. You can remove that completely if you like. I am about to install a set shortly, and that's what I'll be doing.
To do a proper install, I'd completely remove the cups (get the right tool), clean everything out with something like CleanStreak or whatever it's called. Then use a primer (titanium is an inactive metal so it's necessary to help the Loctite cure), and Loctite 609. Then with the appropriate press put everything back together. It's the only way you're going to stop the creaking for good. Grease may quiet it down for a while, but really only masks the problem temporarily. You want to stop ALL movement between the cups and the BB shell, not facilitate it (which is what grease does). It's the movement between these surfaces that is the creaking you hear, assuming it is indeed the BB interface that is creaking, and for this discussion I'm going to presume it is.
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Last edited by Calnago on Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bikerjulio
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by bikerjulio

@ryan makes a good point. I once abandoned a ride because of horrible noises from the "BB". Turned out it was a pedal. My friend was getting nasty creaks out of his bike under load. I checked the skewers, and sure enough he didn't have them tight.

I suspect you are correct in thinking it's the cups, but well worth checking as much as possible.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

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Calnago
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by Calnago

yes, and sorry if I repeated what others may have said... while I was typing my response there seems to have been a barrage of others responding. Pressfit has that effect on people. :lol:
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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bikerjulio
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by bikerjulio

I'm sure I've said this before and am feeling parroty on this issue, but there are 2 fundamental problems with using pressed-in Campy alloy cups on a PF30 frame.

1. PF30 was deliberately designed to be easier than BB30 for manufacturers to make. This was done by easing the machining tolerances and using a delrin cup for the bearing which provides some compliance to any intolerances. Therefore it follows that if you try to make an alloy cup to fit, it's going to fit some shells better than others. It becomes more of a matter of luck if the system will work well.

2. Ultra torque, following the GXP design, anchors the spindle by clamping one of the bearings to the spindle. They were designed back in the good old days of threaded BBs. Neither BB30 or Shimano did this. Therefore it follows that the pressed-in cup and bearing is restraining the spindle from sideways motion, and that the motion is always trying to dislodge the cup. Not a good situation.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

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