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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:53 pm 
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
tyres blow of carbon clincher rims on decent mostly because of too much braking or the rider starts of with 120 psi . If the rider had used a wide clincher rim and run the tyres at 80 psi then a doubling of tyre pressure due to heat build is not so likely to blow the tyre of the rim.

Having said that I live in relatively flat lands of Suffolk U.K so my carbon clinchers (25mm wide) work just fine for me but I do not ride mountains.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:09 pm 
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drainyoo wrote:
I've read so much on the topic that my eyes are about to bleed, and I've concluded that I'm confused.

You have one camp that thinks carbon clinchers are dangerous, and will cause catastrophic failure, and should be avoided at all costs. Then you have the other camp that swears by them and claims they're complete safe to ride.

I ask because I'm in the market for new wheels, and I can't seem to make an educated decisions. Carbon clinchers interest me because you get a deeper, more aero rim, at a decent weight. And sure, yes, they look awesome, too. But if I'm going to die riding these things, then I'd rather not.

Is the danger really there? If so, why do so many companies make them? Are they lying to themselves to just make a profit during this boom?

So, which is it? School me.


For each component on a bicycle, there is an ideal material for that application (given current technology that is). Carbon fiber is ideal for many things... frames, forks, handlebars, and a few other items. But a rim is not a good application for carbon fiber...not unless you're racing and you're willing to deal with the costs of using such a rim.
The reality is that metal is still an ideal application for enthusiast use....aluminum really....given current technology that is. The weakness of carbon being used for a rim is actually the resin. It offers poor braking properties and does not deal with friction/heat well.
Until some kind of new 'super resin' comes along that can suspend the fibers in the desired shape while dealing with all the extremes that a rim endures, I think that aluminum is still the best material for a rim for general enthusiast use.


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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:09 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Location: USA
If you buy a quality wheel..say Enve, Bontrager you get a 5 year warranty. I have never seen any one of those 2 fail. I do know Enve had some issues about 3 years ago and that problem is now gone. I have used carbon clinchers for years. I ride a ton of hills and never had an issue with carbon clinchers and I am 180lbs.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:38 pm 
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I think that the Shimano R-785 changes things dramatically in this space- I've got them on my new bike and they are excellent- I've paired them with carbon clinchers as the braking concern is totally removed.

I've still got tubs (Stinger 4's) on the bike with standard calliper brakes, that said.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:13 am 
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I've taken my Enve 3.4s down some pretty steep descents, no issues.
I think it depends on whether you're an overly cautious descender or not. I would rather not use mine on a day that sees steep descents in the rain.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:42 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
I've ridden my Farsports carbon clinchers down many fast steep descents and steep technical descents with no issues. Including the steepest most technical descent used in road races in my district. The race organizer stations radio operators, EMTs and ambulances down the whole thing because there will be multiple crashes. And I had to do more braking than normal on that descent because a support car got on the course in front of my group and wouldn't let us by. The brakes were squealing at the bottom but the rims survived.

However there are even steeper and more technical descents in the area and some of them would make me nervous on carbon clinchers. But they're race wheels and I train on cheaper aluminium rims.

There's not going to be a concensus. Each rider needs to evaluate the plusses and minuses for themselves. For me, doing long events and races with little to no support, tubulars are simply not an option. And the carbon clinchers work ok for me.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:07 am 
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All depends on the quality of the rim and the riders ability and their braking technique. I've had no issues with my Enve 45 clinchers, even with latex tubes, but the biggiest hill we have around here is just a shade under 600m in height and not terribly twisty which requires continual braking.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:38 am 
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Once I rode down a 12,5% decent and ripped the side wall on a al clincher wheel.
Skidding across the road on the rim, the rim was a bit battered but ok.
I'm not sure a carbon wheel would be usable after that.
That was the last time I ever rode clinchers, ever.

And yes I have had several flats on tubulars after (over several years) and that is not a problem
get going on a decent with a new tire is.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:58 pm 
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Realistically hard braking will cause problems with carbon clinchers. Then again hard braking will cause problems with carbon tubulars as well, for different reasons but problems still the same. Just ask Beloki. You don’t hear the alarm bells ring when someone rolls a carbon tubular.

Where I see a material problem with carbon clinchers is riding on the rim once the tire is flat. Riding on the rim pretty much destroys the carbon clincher. Another question I have is after 10 years of use how does the resin in carbon clinchers and the brake surface hold up? I don’t know that anyone knows the answer to that. I’ve been riding them for almost two years and they seem fine, though I run through brake pads a lot faster.

So for me, as long as I am willing to replace brake pads often (same with tubulars), willing to pay $ for a cab ride if I run out of tubes to get me home some day (as yet never happened but have ridden damn far on a flat tubular), and willing to replace them within a couple of years (maybe earlier than tubulars), then carbon clinchers for me are fine. If I find some other major issue in the next couple of years that make them a deal breaker, then it’s pretty easy for me to go back to tubulars. Which as I said at the beginning have their own set of issues.


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Hello!
I'm thinking of buying an allround High-profile ( 45-55 mm ) full-carbon clincher wheelset like Zipp 303, Reynolds 46....... That wheelset will be my only wheelset.
I live in a relative flat country with 1 km short hills.
1-2 times a year I ride in the mountains in Spain or France.

My dilemma and question to you is;
Is it realistic to use a full-carbon clincher wheelset in the mountains?

I have heard so much about carbonwheels overheating while breaking on the descends.

/Fyssen


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:57 pm 
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It can certainly happen if you ride your brakes on long downhills. However the wheels you listed and generally considered the best braking cc's along with enve. Weight is also certainly a factor! How much do you weigh?

I've also seen many of the failures attributed to using latex tubes with carbon clinchers and have experienced this myself with a set of Chinese rims I built up.

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 3:14 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
The worst for brake heat is steep technical descents with tight turns. (ok, riding your brakes the whole way down a descent is even worse but I'm assuming you don't do that). Big fast descents with few or sweeping turns is no problem.

I have a couple sets of carbon clinchers but I would not use them as my only set of wheels. Braking in the rain sucks, and wearing out a rim is much more expensive than with aluminium rims.

Deep section wheels get blown around by the wind more. Sometimes it's windy in the mountains.


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 10:05 pm 
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Location: McCall, ID
Fyssen wrote:
Hello!
I'm thinking of buying an allround High-profile ( 45-55 mm ) full-carbon clincher wheelset like Zipp 303, Reynolds 46....... That wheelset will be my only wheelset.
I live in a relative flat country with 1 km short hills.
1-2 times a year I ride in the mountains in Spain or France.

My dilemma and question to you is;
Is it realistic to use a full-carbon clincher wheelset in the mountains?

I have heard so much about carbonwheels overheating while breaking on the descends.

/Fyssen


Carbon clinchers have come a long way in the past couple of years. With that said they still won't be nearly as efficient at dissipating heat as an alloy equivalent. If I were you I'd consider going tubular in the world of carbon. They're much more efficient at heat dissipation seeing as there isn't nearly as much material/epoxy to hold in the heat. If you want to go clincher though then maybe consider a wide alloy clincher.

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 2:27 pm 
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Location: Ruidoso, NM
shoopdawoop wrote:
I've also seen many of the failures attributed to using latex tubes with carbon clinchers and have experienced this myself with a set of Chinese rims I built up.


How did the latex tube contribute to failure?

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:42 pm 
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Location: 604
Not much to add to this discussion other than:

https://twitter.com/cipothelionking/status/460219233234739200


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Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:42 pm 


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