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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
The $2.50 a pair for FarSports blue pads really puts a crimp in my cycling.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:14 pm 
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Some addition info for the thread, based on my own experiences. I only have experience of Far Sports 38mm Carbon Clinchers, so this info only applies to them absolutely, but may be general info for other carbon clinchers.

-Brake pads need a lot more careful consideration than initially thought. There is not a lot of objective info about what brake pads do and don't work with what rims, and using something unsuitable may cause irrepairable damage. I burnt out two Far Sports rims using Swiss Stop Black Prince pads. Nowhere does it say on the Far Sports site not to use these pads, and Swiss Stop themselves offer no warning or info about the compound of the pads. I now use Far Sports pads, and have no problems with melting the braking surface.

-Carbon Clinchers suffer badly (in comparison to tubulars) from spoke tension issues; this is caused by the need for the tyre to sit very tightly on the rim, which compresses the circumference of the rim, which reduces the radius slightly, causing the spoke tension to drop. This is very pronounced on Carbon Clincher rims, and can be a serious issue if you are using a hub with a low maximum tension rating, combined with a lacing pattern which lends itself to a relatively low NDS tension.

An example of this would be, for example, a hub with a maximum tension of 100kg, using a 1:1 DS/NDS spoke ratio. Building the wheel with the DS at 100kg, would have the NDS sitting at about 50-60kg. Once the tyre gets put on though, this tension drops significantly, to the point where you may lose all effective NDS tension. I know, as this happened to me. There are ways around this, by using lacing patterns which give the NDS a proportionally higher tension, or indeed getting a hub which has a higher maximum tension, but this is an issue with Carbon Clinchers, none-the-less.


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Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:14 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:34 pm 
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I was afraid of riding carbon clinchers because of failures but when I bought my 2014 Trek Madone 7.9 I opted for the Bontrager D5 cc since I was assured they were better than the older versions. I put 25mm tires on them and really loved them.

I live on the west side of LA and spend a lot of time in the local mountains. I am a very good descender and don't hit the brakes excessively. A few weeks ago, after months with no issue, I had a double carbon clincher fail on a warm day. The front just popped on a descent but I luckily recovered before I crashed. The rear had a slow leak so that may just have been a coincidence. My tire pressure was only around 100 and the rims were so hot to the touch I couldn't believe it.

I'll never ride carbon clinchers in the mountains again until disc brakes become cool. On the flats or rollers I would never worry. I miss the looks but it's not worth risking my life.

I don't race anymore but when I did I raced Zipp 404 tubulars and I nothing I have tried compares to the feel of light aero tubular wheels in my experience.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:46 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
What descent were you going down? Which brake pads were you using?

I've always used aluminium wheels down there when descending roads like Yerba Buena and Deer Creek. I also use aluminium rims up here in the santa cruz mountains as we have some very steep and technical descents.

But I've been ok with carbon clinchers everywhere else including the big climbs in the sierras and the steepest and most technical descent that we race down in NorCal.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:30 pm 
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Ride best pads, SS black prince or shimano C3s , brake with both brakes at time shortly and more frequently , and inflate about 110 psi and dont use them at mountains or in hot days. That's best you can do. When you are not sure ride you ALU set . In the positive side they are aero, lighter, posh and comfier. I love them but not for everything. Don't waste money in Envés or Zipps, Farsports and LVWA Amazon and others make good ones for about 500 600 $ and good enough

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:25 am 
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I have Enve 3.4s... just finished Levi's Gran Fondo... some major wrecks happened and the worst was on the first major descent after King Ridge .. witnessed a lot of people with flats on the side of the road on that descent. Kinda worried me and I actually stopped twice ..1, my hands were tired from braking and I wanted to see how hot my rims were. Yes they were pretty toasty but not burn me hot.

I never gave my Enve's a second thought going down Calaveras or Mt Diablo.( typical <10% grades). but Kings Ridge was something else.. it was HOT .. the road is in crappy condition and it is steep.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:31 pm 
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Generally, it's only the big US brands that have the heat thing really figured out; I'd have no compunction in this day and age riding down the nastiest descents on a new set of Enve/Zipp/Reynolds wheels, but my experience hasn't borne out the same confidence in cheaper brands.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:27 pm
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according to HED's tsting, it's not the rim thats a problem.. it's the tubes and tyres inside them. read more about it here:


http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/A_tour_o ... _4001.html


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:55 pm 
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beatnik wrote:
Ride best pads, SS black prince or shimano C3s , brake with both brakes at time shortly and more frequently , and inflate about 110 psi and dont use them at mountains or in hot days. That's best you can do. When you are not sure ride you ALU set . In the positive side they are aero, lighter, posh and comfier. I love them but not for everything. Don't waste money in Envés or Zipps, Farsports and LVWA Amazon and others make good ones for about 500 600 $ and good enough


I don't find any other hits when searching WW for LVWA, what's the story with them? There are very few reviews of any of their products on Amazon. I'm specifically interested in wide 35-40mm clinchers. I prefer to build my own, but some of these complete wheelsets are two cheap to ignore. Amazon is a plus for me.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:20 pm 
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I have 38s C3 with scandium inside to solve heating problem, bassalt surface T700 U shaped rim and novatec- sapim 24 2x both sides rear and are great. No dif. in braking performance with my K-Es almost same weight and stiffer but more aero. I am glad with them . But i've done only 1000 km. I bought a second 50 pair for my daddy, but C1 with red decals and V shaped same hubs and lacing pattern but worst rim imho.

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http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 8e319d185b


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:34 pm 
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davidalone wrote:
according to HED's tsting, it's not the rim thats a problem.. it's the tubes and tyres inside them. read more about it here:


http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/A_tour_o ... _4001.html

Kind of designers are scary more even than their wheels
Failure is because rim opens due to the heat and the pressure, both things make the rim flex out till the fiber breaks. Resin overheating is bad but not the worst. I'm civil engineer.

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http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 8e319d185b


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:03 pm 
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I'll throw in my data point.

I like - liked - the idea of carbon clinchers. I've got a pair of Strikes and had a pairs of Assaults. I've ridden the Assaults at IMC and a Strike(R)/Assault(F) combo at Mallorca 70.3. I've ridden them elsewhere too - for a whole in the summer I commuted on the Assaults just for the hell of it. I've been satisfied with their performance.

Three weeks ago I was riding the Assaults in the Yorkshire Dales. I came to a descent - maybe 3 miles - which was twisty and steep (quite a lot of 16% and above on my Joule - I was glad of our route). I was stuck behind a car and couldn't get round due to the twisties and short straights between the bends. I had to ride the brakes a lot more than I would normally.

Bottom line: I should have stopped at the top, let the car go, then ride a clear road. Because by the time I was at the bottom I'd popped a bulge on the front rim. I took some air out of the tyre and rode very carefully back to base. But the wheel was dead.

So now I use it to stretch tubulars.

I've still got the Strikes - for now. I really want to like carbon clinchers, but this has made me realise that they - or perhaps just the low end models - are not yet sufficiently matured as a technology for genuine everyday all condition use.

If I had blown an Enve, or a Zipp, or a Reynolds Aero, I'd be seriously pissed off.


ETA: 80kg, Reynolds blue cryo pads.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:08 am 
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How old were your rims Greg?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:06 pm
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kulivontot wrote:
How old were your rims Greg?



Two years (to the day!) from purchase date. Bought new and boxed but from eBay so no warranty. I was prepared to take that risk when I bought them, but hey ho.

More than 1000 but less than 2000 miles since I've had them. 2012 model with this decal set

Image

To be fair, Reynolds were very good and offered me a deeply discounted crash replacement option despite me having no receipt and being out of warranty. But the economics just didn't stack up - I didn't want to keep them, and I wouldn't get the repair cost of one wheel back if I sold the pair. So I wrote the front off, sold the rear with its aerojacket, and went for some tubs instead.

Now I'm waiting for a dry spell so I can try them out...


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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:25 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:20 pm 
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New Mavic C40 solve the heat issue, but are expensive. Imho clinchers are now safe for right use. But not for everything . Prada Shoes are not made to play soccer. Tubulars are not for every day, except if you want to come back home by taxi. If you are scared just buy zipp 60 or cosmic with ALU braking surface. And you don't climb with them for another reason ;) . Finally we have to choose.

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http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 8e319d185b


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