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Which Wheels?
MEILENSTEIN Obermayer WEISS EDITION • Lightweight 42%  42%  [ 18 ]
Enve 3.4 with Alchemy Elf/Orc hub 47%  47%  [ 20 ]
Enve 3.4 with White Industries Ti hubs 12%  12%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 43
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:39 pm 
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Have ridden and raced the 3.4's in some crazy wind, they handled it superbly.

Have 6.7's which are also excellent. But the 3.4's almost felt like box sections with how little they were knocked around.

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Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:39 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:34 pm 
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I will be trying out a new sub 1,000 gram Enve 45 wheelset with Alchemy hubs this weekend. 995 grams with both wheels on my scale, 997 front + rear weighed separately to nearest gram on Jeremy's scale. Either way, sub 1,000. :mrgreen: Some of you may have seen this exact wheelset on display at Interbike. Red adonized hubs, 18/20 Pillar Ti spokes. Not for everyone but I am a moderately light weight rider about 145 pounds. In the process of gluing up some Veloflex Extremes. I am used to racing on 303s with Vittoria SCs so will be interesting to see how they compare to those. Jeremy thinks I will be pleasantly surprised with ride and stiffness compared to the Zipps. I have high respect for Jeremy and his wealth of knowledge regarding wheelset build comparisons, but the Ti spokes do admittedly give me some reservation so we'll see!

I have not ridden Lightweights.


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 Post subject: Which wheels?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:35 pm 
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Hi All WW! As posted, if budget wasn't an issue, which wheels? Total rider + weight setup is around 90kgs, hence the weiss edition lightweights. Im roughly after something sensational. Something better than my current bora ultra 2s and Mavic CCU. Unfortunately I do not have the chance to test ride any of the wheels below, and am going on a purchase it and be done trip. I want something that is nice to look at, timeless, fast pick up and robust. I have read reviews of almost all the hubs available and have narrowed it down to the 2 hubs I would chose should I go the enve route. The other Lightweight however, is a DT190 hub and has some negative feedback in regards to it. As a freehub by itself, its expensive, overpriced, and does not have the longevity compared to a DT240 with aftermarket ceramic bearings :shock:

At this point of time, I do love my CCUs. Its Fast, Stiff and Responsive but its lacking in the smoothness of hubs/bearings compared to the Campagnolo wheels. I actually much prefer my Shamals and Fulcrum 5s ( I know.. its true though.. :| )over the CCUs. Is that a normal thing? I absolutely was appalled at the rolling of the CCUs bearings when I first purchased them, but then saw the merits of a stiff wheel. I am trying to avoid Mavic wheels if possible as time and time again, I am not satisfied . :roll: Any input is greatly appreciated as this purchase shall be the last of 2013. :P

Wheels I have owned;

Zipp 404 firecrest
Fulcrum 5
Campagnolo Bora Ultra 2s
Campagnolo Shamal Ultra
Mavic Cosmic Carbone Ultimate
Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLR
Mavic Cosmic Carbone SR

PS: it has to be light.. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Which wheels?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:44 pm 
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None of your options will have better hubs that the Bora U2 or Shamal ultra because they are the best hubs in he business.


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 Post subject: Re: Which wheels?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:01 am 
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LionelB wrote:
None of your options will have better hubs that the Bora U2 or Shamal ultra because they are the best hubs in he business.


So I suppose It's not just me that has the feeling?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:37 am 
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.


Last edited by Causidicus on Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:34 am 
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Once you get into the $3K range, why not go ahead and pay a little more to get arguably the best wheel set available. Lightweights are engineered top to bottom. They are not just carbon rims built up from a box of off the shelf parts.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:09 pm 
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having had both...my vote goes to the Enve 3.4.

i put on more miles on the Enve 3.4. the Lightweight Gen III, less miles. i hit a pothole descending and kept riding. got home and found the outer rim buckled and cracked. sent them back to LW for inspection. had to replace both front and back with crash replacement (IIRC, 30% off). i still have the set in the box. the Enve 3.4...i have ridden over the same roads, hit potholes and such, including a crash going 28mph. no damage to the Enve wheels or the Enve 1.0 fork. my Parlee...that's another story (replaced). never had any issues with them. they feel more stable because of the wider width. they may not be as light, but they are virtually bulletproof.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:31 pm 
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ProudDaddy wrote:
I will be trying out a new sub 1,000 gram Enve 45 wheelset with Alchemy hubs this weekend. 995 grams with both wheels on my scale, 997 front + rear weighed separately to nearest gram on Jeremy's scale. Either way, sub 1,000. :mrgreen: Some of you may have seen this exact wheelset on display at Interbike. Red adonized hubs, 18/20 Pillar Ti spokes. Not for everyone but I am a moderately light weight rider about 145 pounds. In the process of gluing up some Veloflex Extremes. I am used to racing on 303s with Vittoria SCs so will be interesting to see how they compare to those. Jeremy thinks I will be pleasantly surprised with ride and stiffness compared to the Zipps. I have high respect for Jeremy and his wealth of knowledge regarding wheelset build comparisons, but the Ti spokes do admittedly give me some reservation so we'll see!

I have not ridden Lightweights.



I've got alchemies built to 6.7 tubs with X-rays, super nice wheels
I also have 1.45s built to extralite SPM and SPX hubs with X-rays again.
Lethe extalites are 990g, stiff and really snappy one of the nicest wheels I've ever used. The 6.7s are really nice too but not as snappy and a little less stiff.
Funny you've got a sub kilo wheelset built using such over built and heavy hubs. Using the extralite or tune hubs you could use more spokes, steel spokes and have better stiffness, plus save a couple of $$ not using the much softer Ti spokes. Thinking of re lacing the hubs next year to 1.25s for a truly climby wheelset.


As for the lightweight debate.. They are stiff and expensive.. Other wise they are not very aero/robust/nice on windy days. The Swiss stop pads they come with are f-ing horrid in the wet and grabby unless you keep the rims clean..
For that money you could get 2 sets of evne wheels. One sub kilo tubs and maybe the 3.4s in clincher.
You pay extra for the extended service which comes free with the enves..
Opps I've just realised that you pay lots for the enve stuff in Europe, here in Australia the lightweights are over 5k and the enves 2.5-3k :oops:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:51 pm 
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sugarkane wrote:
ProudDaddy wrote:
I will be trying out a new sub 1,000 gram Enve 45 wheelset with Alchemy hubs this weekend. 995 grams with both wheels on my scale, 997 front + rear weighed separately to nearest gram on Jeremy's scale. Either way, sub 1,000. :mrgreen: Some of you may have seen this exact wheelset on display at Interbike. Red adonized hubs, 18/20 Pillar Ti spokes. Not for everyone but I am a moderately light weight rider about 145 pounds. In the process of gluing up some Veloflex Extremes. I am used to racing on 303s with Vittoria SCs so will be interesting to see how they compare to those. Jeremy thinks I will be pleasantly surprised with ride and stiffness compared to the Zipps. I have high respect for Jeremy and his wealth of knowledge regarding wheelset build comparisons, but the Ti spokes do admittedly give me some reservation so we'll see!

I have not ridden Lightweights.



I've got alchemies built to 6.7 tubs with X-rays, super nice wheels
I also have 1.45s built to extralite SPM and SPX hubs with X-rays again.
Lethe extalites are 990g, stiff and really snappy one of the nicest wheels I've ever used. The 6.7s are really nice too but not as snappy and a little less stiff.
Funny you've got a sub kilo wheelset built using such over built and heavy hubs. Using the extralite or tune hubs you could use more spokes, steel spokes and have better stiffness, plus save a couple of $$ not using the much softer Ti spokes. Thinking of re lacing the hubs next year to 1.25s for a truly climby wheelset.


As for the lightweight debate.. They are stiff and expensive.. Other wise they are not very aero/robust/nice on windy days. The Swiss stop pads they come with are f-ing horrid in the wet and grabby unless you keep the rims clean..
For that money you could get 2 sets of evne wheels. One sub kilo tubs and maybe the 3.4s in clincher.
You pay extra for the extended service which comes free with the enves..
Opps I've just realised that you pay lots for the enve stuff in Europe, here in Australia the lightweights are over 5k and the enves 2.5-3k :oops:



Being in Australia, are you are suggesting that the enve's are more favourable in comparison to LWs ? I agree that the enve's do seem like the better choice ( cost ratio ) and LW's are known for being notoriously expensive, that on side, what is the ride quality ? If the quality of the ride is sub par compared to the bora ultra 2s, i do not think there is a reason for me to buy another set of hoops. What I'm chasing after , is the sublime quality of ride that the wheels provide. I am in an unfortunate circumstance that neither anyone around me have either to let me test ride. :?

that aside, for a 85kg rider, if im looking at a stiff set of 3.4 enve's, which hubs would be the better recommendation ?

NealH wrote:
Once you get into the $3K range, why not go ahead and pay a little more to get arguably the best wheel set available. Lightweights are engineered top to bottom. They are not just carbon rims built up from a box of off the shelf parts.


That has got me thinking as to why so many people have a love/hate relationship with LWs. Its not a set of hoops built from custom DIY parts, Its not a unengineered piece of wheelset, but yet again, many people buy it for the bling factor? or simply for the ride quality? the reviews I have read thus far sound disappointing and poorly opinionated towards the DT190.

Please englighten.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Here in Australia I can get a set of enve custom wheelsets for under 3k lightweights cost upwards of 5k.. So yea big difference in price and every thing you pay for with the lightweight service up included with the std price.. And 'ride quality' is not a term that is every used with lightweights. They are hands down stiffer than any thing built with steel spokes..
If your using boras then there is no reason to buy a set of lightweights..
Harder riding wheels that offer no better aero or cross wind handling than the wheels you have..
If you want awesome carbon clinchers get some 3.4 customs and if you want a set of awesome climbers and don't have a good custom builder then a set of Hyperion ultras

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:37 pm 
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I think the 5 year warranty and lifetime crash replacement on the Enves is reason enough to choose them. Plus the 3.4s have the best braking that I've seen in a carbon rim.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:41 pm 
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sugarkane wrote:
Here in Australia I can get a set of enve custom wheelsets for under 3k lightweights cost upwards of 5k.. So yea big difference in price and every thing you pay for with the lightweight service up included with the std price.. And 'ride quality' is not a term that is every used with lightweights. They are hands down stiffer than any thing built with steel spokes..
If your using boras then there is no reason to buy a set of lightweights..
Harder riding wheels that offer no better aero or cross wind handling than the wheels you have..
If you want awesome carbon clinchers get some 3.4 customs and if you want a set of awesome climbers and don't have a good custom builder then a set of Hyperion ultras


Does not stiff wheels convert to better power transfer ? :roll: Just curious. I have a set of Mavic CCUs and indeed they are far stiffer than my BoraU2.. But the hubs :x

SO if by chance I can get my hands on a set of either enve 3.4 tubs (alchemy/orc hubs) and LW tubs(DT190) for 4K mark, is the enve 3.4 still more of the better choice?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:53 pm 
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If power transfer is all that concerns you the yea.. But after 6 hour on a bike the ride quality is more of an issue. Also compared to the 3.4s they are shit in gusty conditions.. I have a friend who just went from a set of gen III lightweights too a set of 3.4 alchemy clinchers and loves the enves. He did rate the stiffness of the lightweights and that was always some thing he mentioned about them.. But since he got the enves things have changed. The cross wind handling, the slick braking wet or dry and they don't ride any where near as harshly.. Haven't heard a word about the lightweights since..
Best thing is a bit of test riding if you can or maybe try a pair that a friend own.
Thing is you may or may not love the lightweights but you will not be disappointed by the 3.4s..

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Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:53 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:25 pm 
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I had Zen build me up some 3.4 with Alchemy front hub.. power tap rear..cx rays.. could not be happier .


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