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Which Wheels?
MEILENSTEIN Obermayer WEISS EDITION • Lightweight 40%  40%  [ 17 ]
Enve 3.4 with Alchemy Elf/Orc hub 48%  48%  [ 20 ]
Enve 3.4 with White Industries Ti hubs 12%  12%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 42
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:15 pm
Posts: 670
ENVE are plenty stiff. I don't see how you could possibly need a stiffer rim?

You also need to consider the repair cost with the two very different spoke system that LW and ENVE use.

For me, I'd go 3.4. Honestly though, you can't go wrong. Just flip a coin and be done with it! :wink:


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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:26 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:58 pm 
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Posts: 325
Anyone who is advising Enve has probably never ridden Lightweights or is a professional wheel builder who has an incentive to push Enve wheels.
There is zero comparison in the real world in terms of absolute stiffness. There is no other wheel I know of other than the MAvic CCU that compares.

Lightweights are astoundingly stiff, yet sublimely comfortable.

Lightweights were ridden pro pro tour riders (At their own cost) for the past 6 years, and while the design may be getting a bit "dated" there is still nothing that compares, certainly not ENVE hoops.

The US prices of these wheels reflect their relative quality, with Enve 50-60% the cost of a set of Lightweights. If you are seeing both at similar prices, buy two sets of the LW and run!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm
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Don't try this at home kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tGOi5saJuU

The Mavic CCU and Lightweights are definitely shown as the stiffest wheels for carbon. Of course, they are full carbon wheels, which is how they can achieve light/stiff. Madfiber are probably right up there also, but nobody has tested those.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:34 pm
Posts: 1652
Location: New York City
How about Corima winium MCC+ at 980g they turned out to be lighter and stiffer than the lightweights sprinter version. they could also be had for $3k. i am willing to bet the Aero MCC+ are even stiffer 1080g. with only 12 paired spokes i bet they are pretty aero; even though they are bigger rounded spokes.

i believe i read that because their is no tension on the spokes the rim weigh is reduced another 50g from the traditional winium/aero rim. the regular winium rim is already light at 270g. i am willing to bet this could be one of the liveliest wheels out there, the winium MCC+.

Image
Image
Image


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:25 pm 
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Posts: 29
Location: Sherman Oaks
spytech wrote:
How about Corima winium MCC+ at 980g they turned out to be lighter and stiffer than the lightweights sprinter version. they could also be had for $3k. i am willing to bet the Aero MCC+ are even stiffer 1080g. with only 12 paired spokes i bet they are pretty aero; even though they are bigger rounded spokes.


I love those. I thought Rolf Prima had a patent on paired spokes?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:34 pm 
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Location: Denmark
spytech wrote:
How about Corima winium MCC+ at 980g they turned out to be lighter and stiffer than the lightweights sprinter version. they could also be had for $3k. i am willing to bet the Aero MCC+ are even stiffer 1080g. with only 12 paired spokes i bet they are pretty aero; even though they are bigger rounded spokes.


The Corimas tested very, very high in the Tour stiffness test indeed. But also very, very badly, aerowise. Almost at R-Sys level... Must be the thick, round spokes, as the normal Corimas has tested well before in Tour in that regard.

As for the LW/Enve comparison, I have a lot of experience with both as distributor of both. Indeed the LW's are very stiff. Also stiffer than the ENVE's but I have build a set of Smart 3.4's with Chris King R45 hubs. They are very close to the super responsive feel of the LW's. For other characteristics like road feel, aerodynamics and weight the wheels are more different, but in said configuration I would have a hard time deciding which I prefer.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:45 pm 
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Location: New York City
Mario Jr. wrote:
spytech wrote:
How about Corima winium MCC+ at 980g they turned out to be lighter and stiffer than the lightweights sprinter version. they could also be had for $3k. i am willing to bet the Aero MCC+ are even stiffer 1080g. with only 12 paired spokes i bet they are pretty aero; even though they are bigger rounded spokes.


The Corimas tested very, very high in the Tour stiffness test indeed. But also very, very badly, aerowise. Almost at R-Sys level... Must be the thick, round spokes, as the normal Corimas has tested well before in Tour in that regard.



Which did they test, winium MCC or Aero MCC? R-sys level is not good at all. Maybe in an updated model, they could make the spokes bladed and smaller.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:18 pm
Posts: 294
REGARDING THIS TOPIC:

WHAT I'M THINKING OF BUYING IS THIS VERSION:

SEE PIC HERE - 20 SPOKES FRONT + 24 SPOKES REAR:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/articl ... Farticle#2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

YOU CAN SEE THE TESTS OF STIFFNESS HERE:

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ONLY THE RZR TEAM IS STIFFER, BUT NOT CONSTANT.

ANY ONE RIDE THE SPRINT VERSION OF THE LW.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Location: New York City
elfuinha wrote:
REGARDING THIS TOPIC:

WHAT I'M THINKING OF BUYING IS THIS VERSION:

SEE PIC HERE - 20 SPOKES FRONT + 24 SPOKES REAR:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/articl ... Farticle#2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

YOU CAN SEE THE TESTS OF STIFFNESS HERE:

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ONLY THE RZR TEAM IS STIFFER, BUT NOT CONSTANT.

ANY ONE RIDE THE SPRINT VERSION OF THE LW.


that is a great wheelset. my friend and shop owner rides a set, not a huge difference for a normal guy between the 16/20 or 20/20 to the 20/24. i think if you pay extra for crash warranty, you get another set of lightwights on loan till you get yours if you total a set.

btw, the corima's front is stiffer than both you mentioned and corima's rear is stiffer than the LW sprinter.

YOUR CAPS LOCL IS ON.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:18 pm
Posts: 294
hello after reading this french forum, i'm starting to get a little unhappy with LW wheels, lots of problems, and expansive repair costs.

http://veloptimal.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=510" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And i'm considering a costum wheel like this:
AWL 42mm (Matt no Stickers) - 340g - http://www.aerowheels.fr/index.php?p=catalogue&id=694" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
CX-Ray Black, with internal nipples if possible
Achemy Orc/Elf 24/20

still don't know about the Stiffness, but the rims can be done custom by request.

price - less 20% than LW.

And reparable.

Best Regards


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:34 pm
Posts: 1652
Location: New York City
Cant go wrong with custom, if you have a good builder that knows what he/she is doing. i recommend cx-speed for the drive side. beefier version of the cx-ray. will gain very little weight (15g) but it will definitely increase stiffness and durability.

the hubs you have chosen are excellent, though i dont know the rim company.

Mavic CCU are also great wheels. if you want that type of wheel like the lightweights.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:18 pm
Posts: 294
the CCU are great wheels, but the problem with them is the freewheel sistem.:

Lightweight sprint: (2560€)
+ stiff
- expensive
+ freewheel change - shimano or campy
- reperability
- if reparable (price)
+ weight 1130g (36T ratchet)
+ freewheel

CCU: (2350€)
+ stiff
- expensive
+ freewheel change - shimano or campy
- reperability (none)
=weight (1200g)
- freewheel

Custom (AWL + Alchemy): (2160€)
= stiff - not like LW or CCU
+ not so expensive
+ freewheel change - shimano or campy (possible)
+ reperability cheaper if not the rim
+weight (1160g)
+ Hubs

Custom (ENVE SMART 3.4 + Alchemy): (2780€)
= stiff - not like LW or CCU
+ expensive than CCU or LW
+ freewheel change - shimano or campy (possible)
+ reperability cheaper if not the rim
- weight (1250g)
+ Hubs

i will sleep on it.

still don't know.

tanks for all the answers.

best regards


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:06 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:03 pm
Posts: 1305
Location: Denmark
I totally agree with Mario Jr.

I have both LW and ENVE 6.7. When I bought the 6.7 I thought I would sell my LW. But now I can't. They just match each other so perfect! The LW er super responsive, light and stiff but aerowise they are not the best on the market. The 6.7 are off course more heavy but handles so well in every condition, are more than stiff enough for me and the roll on the flat like nothing else.

If I sell on wheelset I will miss the other wheelsets characteristics and the other way around. I have also come to the conclusion that I, at the moment, can't find a wheelset that is the perfect combination of these two (haven't tried the 3.4 though). They both stands for superior characteristics in the different conditions they are intended for.

_________________
Technical editor at Cykelmagasinet Denmark

My Simplon Pavo II


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm
Posts: 173
If I had the opportunity I wouldn't pass up the chance to get the new ENVEs on Alchemy, likely to be the fastest wheel under 99% of conditions. If you want a very stiff and responsive feeling wheel get LW/CCU.


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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:17 am 


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:26 pm
Posts: 56
Location: Slovenia, LJ
Well I have similar thoughts as Elfuinha :

Enve SES 3.4.tubulars build with Tune mig45/mag150 (Sapim CX Ray spokes)

or

Lightweight Standard III tubular.

The weight is approximately the same, but this is the least of my problems, since I weigh 68 kg.

I tried Enve 1.45. tubular with Tune hubs and they were stiff enough for me. I never tired LW

The thing that makes me worry if I go for LW is cross wind. Where I live is a lot of wind during whole year and Enves 1.45. are quite susceptible for cross wind, which makes ride very unpleasant in windy conditions.

Enve SES 3.4 supposed to be much more stable in crosswinds.

If I go for LW cross wind is my major concern.

Any thoughts?

_________________
fiti


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