HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:00 pm
Posts: 19
Alex, in the context of this discussion of 20g in a hub (BHS SL190 rear hub -- too light?) it seems your trying to argue it's too light. Just a reminder that your talking about 20g located about as close to the neutral axis as it gets. It's contribution to moment of inertia is going to be very small at most. You can do the math here :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am
Posts: 334
notaero wrote:
Alex, in the context of this discussion of 20g in a hub (BHS SL190 rear hub -- too light?) it seems your trying to argue it's too light. Just a reminder that your talking about 20g located about as close to the neutral axis as it gets. It's contribution to moment of inertia is going to be very small at most. You can do the math here :)

Hi notaero, yes, 20g at the axle has negligible affect, but does taking 20g of the hub shell make the hub weaker or less stiff?

Alex if in doubt then just buy the hub that is 20g heavier or simply try the lighter hub and let us know your thoughts :)

thanks KL :)


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:28 am 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:19 pm
Posts: 440
Location: England
In regards to all the bashing I'm receiving, please get off your high horses and remember I am speaking in a general sense and all I did was reference reports I have seen over the years. Just trying to offer another perspective because sometimes it seems around here that people believe that lower weight is the be-all and end-all, when sometimes that isn't necessarily the case.

_________________
BMC SLR02 @ 7kg
"Campagnolo; because I ride a bicycle, not a fishing rod"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:41 pm 
Offline
Shop Owner

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am
Posts: 359
alexh wrote:
sometimes it seems around here that people believe that lower weight is the be-all and end-all.


My God, this is weight weenies! What forum do you think you are on?

Lighter is better until it becomes a safety/reliability issue.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:19 pm
Posts: 440
Location: England
Butcher wrote:
alexh wrote:
sometimes it seems around here that people believe that lower weight is the be-all and end-all.


Lighter is better until it becomes a safety/reliability issue.

+ performance

Christ, my point exactly, and the exact reason for this topic. Glad we got there eventually.

_________________
BMC SLR02 @ 7kg
"Campagnolo; because I ride a bicycle, not a fishing rod"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7446
Location: Los Angeles
alexh wrote:
In regards to all the bashing I'm receiving, please get off your high horses and remember I am speaking in a general sense and all I did was reference reports I have seen over the years. Just trying to offer another perspective because sometimes it seems around here that people believe that lower weight is the be-all and end-all, when sometimes that isn't necessarily the case.


But you aren't speaking in a general sense. In fact, you even stated yourself that you were not speaking in a general sense at all!
Here, let's quote you:

alexh wrote:
Very basic physics will also tell you that a rotating part which is 'too light' will also be unable to maintain a rotation for as long under certain operational conditions.


So that's not very general now is it?

So, again, Alex H, what are these "certain operational conditions" ? And again, Alex H, we've asked you to cite the specific references you are pointing at, but you have failed to bring them to the discussion.

This isn't so much bashing, this is actually what happens at WW as opposed to other forums. We actually think about things. We do the math. We want references. We seek actual proof, not just 'tales from the internet'.

We're still waiting.

In the meantime, you have clearly not done the math.


And again, Alex... you added "+ performance" to someone else's quote about safety/reliability and then claim that someone has agreed with you? Are you kidding? Or are you George W. Bush?

But that's the point from the beginning: we want to know, Alex, where you are claiming performance will be lost in grip? Even I stated from the very beginning about the necessity for proper engineering (which is that safety factor in regards to weight). I also specifically replied to you general statement about "performance" but, even back then, asked for cited references on your claims about "loss of grip." Which, again, we're still waiting for.

So, again Alex (and really, it's getting tiresome of you taking the ownership of the name Alex here... it's getting a bit offensive to the other Alex's here) - what are these references that specifically point to the loss of "grip" ??

alexh wrote:
Christ, my point exactly, and the exact reason for this topic. Glad we got there eventually.


We didn't get there eventually. You added your point onto someone else's statement that does not agree with you and then claimed the argument was finished? That's ridiculous.

_________________
Exp001


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:19 pm
Posts: 440
Location: England
Who is this Alex H? I'm not sure you told me what my own name is enough times so I'm afraid I've forgotten who I am.

I'm not going to dig up years worth of references just to please you, sorry. I'm fed up of a dead end discussion and getting notifications for this topic, YAWN. If the OP wishes to explore my initial post they are more than welcome to do so.

_________________
BMC SLR02 @ 7kg
"Campagnolo; because I ride a bicycle, not a fishing rod"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:19 pm
Posts: 440
Location: England
prendrefeu wrote:
So, again Alex (and really, it's getting tiresome of you taking the ownership of the name Alex here... it's getting a bit offensive to the other Alex's here)


Are you a bit simple? Why does it offend you that I have allowed you to know my name? I don't recall ever claiming to be every Alex in the world using the same account, would you prefer I use some silly username like "fluffybunnies2648e89"? I'm not a teenage girl. Alex is my birth given and legal name and so I will use it to identify myself, the same way I would in an email or letter. Stop spamming this topic and if you must continue a pathetic disagreement to feed your ego please do so via PM. I will not be replying here again.

_________________
BMC SLR02 @ 7kg
"Campagnolo; because I ride a bicycle, not a fishing rod"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7446
Location: Los Angeles
alexh wrote:
Who is this Alex H?

You.

We don't need a speech about your birth given name. Everyone here has a name, internet or otherwise. We need you to stop ignoring the request for references. If you're going to point at them in the face of every counter argument that has been brought up, then please, cite them. We're still waiting. Any person can clearly re-read this thread and see that you are avoiding the questions that inquire about your argument for 'light components being too light and losing grip' (to paraphrase everything you've stated). We want to see the math. We want to see the references. You are "spamming" the thread in equal amount as long as your claims remain un-verified.

_________________
Exp001


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:19 pm
Posts: 440
Location: England
prendrefeu wrote:
alexh wrote:
Who is this Alex H?

You.


Sarcasm, my friend.

Original post edited to clear up any confusion with the English language. Have a good day.

P.S: Do some reading into Speed Wobble and other such phenomena if this area interests you.

_________________
BMC SLR02 @ 7kg
"Campagnolo; because I ride a bicycle, not a fishing rod"


Last edited by Devon on Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7446
Location: Los Angeles
Nice editing, but that still does not change what we're asking you to prove in your claim, Alex.
We'll wait.

Speed wobble is a factor of engineering, not weight.
To quote the Wikipedia article on it:
"The top five influences on wobble have been found to be lateral stiffness of the front tire, steering damper, height of bike center of mass, distance of bike center of mass from rear wheel, and cornering stiffness of the front tire.[3][5]"

So... yeah, not weight.

We're still waiting on that grip thing, and trying to change the subject isn't working.

_________________
Exp001


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 2:29 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Victoria,B.C.
deleted


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:38 am
Posts: 1680
Location: Dutchess County, NY
This was fun to read.

_________________
Speedplay is the devil.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7446
Location: Los Angeles
...

_________________
Exp001


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:56 am
Posts: 389
Location: YYZ
And here is how these myths get perpetuated:

Image

Neil Shirley claiming in Road Bike Action magazine that the 150g difference between the Reynolds RZR and Team is enough to noticeably affect the bike's decending prowess. In that case he'd best not drink from his water bottles or sweat too profusely, lest he should change the bike's handling characteristics.

_________________
Fear is healthy, panic can be deadly


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:33 am 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Anth73, ryan0380, thprice and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Tune 130 rear hub

in Road

SWijland

7

556

Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:55 pm

jmartpr View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Rear QR Skewer?

in MTB

justaute

9

1092

Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:35 pm

andrewh8877 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. ZIPP 404 Rear Tubular

in Wanted

damond

0

37

Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:23 pm

damond View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. More information about the Alchemy UL rear hub.

[ Go to page: 1, 2, 3, 4 ]

in Everything wheels

ergott

54

4226

Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:40 pm

Zigmeister View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. DI2 vs Rear Derailleur Hangers

[ Go to page: 1, 2, 3 ]

in Road

DaleRider

34

3336

Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:36 pm

DaleRider View the latest post


It is currently Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:21 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB