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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 48
Hi all,

I've been doing quite a bit of research and am looking for some recommendations and input to my purchase of a pair of high end wheels for my shortly to arrive C60 disc.

Background:
- I am open to both custom built and factory built wheels, but am currently of the opinion that I should get more bang for the buck out of the custom option.
- I weigh 166 pounds/75kg
- I won't be racing the bike (discs!)
- I'm not much of a sprinter (no high power)
- I'll do about 1500 miles per year (in dry weather)

Criteria (not necessarily in order)
- Look bling - which probably means a rim depth of around 38mm
- Open minded on U shape, but looks modern so would be nice
- Open minded on width, but again 25mm wide looks modern
- Total wheelset as far under 1500grams as I can get it. Hopefully a lot further under.
- Budget - not fixed, but I can't bear the thought of spending £800 on one Enve rim or £400 on one DT Swiss 180 hub. I hope that about 1000 pounds is realistic.
- Must be tubeless clincher compatible
- Must be center lock hubs - for compatibility with icetech and my other wheelsets/rotors
- Must have convertible hubs to go from QR to Thru axle for futureproofing
- Price in proportion to performance

What I have found so far
- DT Swiss 240 hubs are recommended by most people and are convertible with centre lock
- 24 hole seems to be the recommended minimum by wheelbuilders
- 38 mm carbon rims at about 450 grammes
Total weight comes to about 1550g

ENVE rims - frighteningly expensive
DT Swiss 180 - save weight, but supposedly poor hub and frighteningly expensive
I have seen Kappius rims that are 35mm deep that are supposed to weigh about 410g

What else should I be thinking of/looking at? Really I think this comes down to the choice of a lighter rim (say 400g for 38mm deep) and I've done it.

Thanks in advance,
Allen


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:03 am
Posts: 2299
Location: Islip, NY
What about Zipp disc?

As far as custom, The DT hubs are the way to go and definitely skip the 180s. Get 240s. They are much better hubs. White Industries makes CLD, and you can get them in colors. A bit heavier, but awesome hubs that cost less to boot.

For rims, I don't have first hand experience with the Kappius, but the profile does look good on them. The Pacenti SL25 is only about 20g heavier and cost a lot less. Buy some flashy decals if that helps.

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 48
Thanks for the comments.

I'm slightly spoilt by the wheels I put on my 'winter' bike. Pacenti SL25 rims on DT Swiss 240s. They came in at 1550g so I really feel I've got to beat it for my best sunday bike.

I had a look at the zipps, but the wheelset is 1650g (and 2,000 EUR!)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:59 am
Posts: 349
Location: Oxfordshire UK
High end with a budget of £1000? I'll have some of what you're smoking

1535g for £795 retail, shop wisely to save some bucks

http://www.mavic.co.uk/wheels-road-tria ... m-pro-disc

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Scott CR1SL 6.25Kg | CAAD10 6.56Kg


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:49 pm 
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Location: Islip, NY
ross wrote:
High end with a budget of £1000? I'll have some of what you're smoking

1535g for £795 retail, shop wisely to save some bucks

http://www.mavic.co.uk/wheels-road-tria ... m-pro-disc



Not centerlock. I understand why that's a deal breaker.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 48
ross wrote:
High end with a budget of £1000? I'll have some of what you're smoking



Yes, I'm going to have to go higher, but how much do I have to spend to get to say 1450g?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:59 am
Posts: 349
Location: Oxfordshire UK
ergott wrote:
Not centerlock. I understand why that's a deal breaker.


They are available to order in 6 bolt and centrelock dude :)

VERSIONS - FRONT
Clincher, 6 bolts, QR & 15mm
Clincher, Centerlock, QR & 15 mm

VERSIONS - REAR

Clincher, 6 bolts, QR, M11
Clincher, Centerlock, M11
Clincher, 6 bolts, QR, ED11

Allenhuish, have you seen the new 2015 DT Swiss wheels? I enquired about them some time ago for a cross bike build but they weren't available in the UK yet. Try emailing the UK importers: http://www.hotlines-uk.com/contacts/

http://www.dtswiss.com/Wheels/Road-Whee ... ne-C-db-en = clincher, 38mm, centrelock 1455g claimed
http://www.dtswiss.com/Wheels/Road-Whee ... ne-T-db-en = tubular version of above, 1305g claimed
http://www.dtswiss.com/Wheels/Road-Whee ... ne-C-db-en = shallower version clincher 1325g claimed

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Scott CR1SL 6.25Kg | CAAD10 6.56Kg


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:07 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 2573
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I have been riding a set of 24f/24r disc brake wheels and i am heavier than you and there have been zero issues. My build is with velocity aileron rims, sapim cxray spokes and novatec d711/d712 and these weigh 1550g and if you used the d771/d772 hubs which can be converted to thru axles 40g is added. Cost well under your budget and to be honest spending more will not get you more performace.
The aileron rim is a alloy disc brake only clincher that is 25mm wide and 30mm deep.
The pacenti sl25 rim is 10g lighter and 25mm deep 25mm wide.

Dt swiss 240 hubs are great but all you are saving is 90 grams over the novatec d771/d772 hubs and the cost is hugely more Think 300 quid more. Given you say your mileage is going to be 1500 a year it will take you years to wear out the bearings on the novatec hubs. An enterntity on the dt hubs. Where the dt hubs come into there own is for high mileage riders due to the lomg bearing life.

Carbon rims without a brake track are hard to find. I bought a few 38mm deep road clincher carbon rims but with the brake track resin absent to play with. The rims are 435g and 23mm wide. But this is not going to save you much weight. 400g 25mm wide 38mm deep u shaped carbon rims dream on they dont exist.

The way i did a sub 1400g wheelset for my wifes disc brake bike is to use 38mm deep 21mm wide 300g carbon tubular rims, dt swiss 240 hubs and sapim race spokes. If you had a 28f/28R build with cx ray spokes on 240 hubs weight would be a crazy light at 1240g. Even with sapim race spokes you are only adding 90g. Tubular wheels and tyres for the mileage you do will be no problem.

So of you want light and aero then go with carbon tubular wheels like above if you want sensible then a alloy clincher build on novatec hubs. I think putting the expensive hubs in aileron wheelset would be a waste of money given the milage you do.

You dont have spend more than a thousand pounds to get under 1450g Definately shop wisely and you will spend more by buying a factory set.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:18 pm 
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Posts: 2299
Location: Islip, NY
ross wrote:
ergott wrote:
Not centerlock. I understand why that's a deal breaker.


They are available to order in 6 bolt and centrelock dude :)


Just looked at your original link.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Posts: 727
Location: FIN
DT Swiss RC 28 SPLINE C DB Carbon Wheelset Clincher : 1350g under gbp1000,-

DT Swiss RC 38 SPLINE T DB - 28" Carbon Wheelset Tubular : same as above

Just 2 examples from the row. And no, I do not work for DT. But I'm open for offers :)

If you are Zipp/ ENVE / marketing victim, yes - budget for so called by them "high end" is to low.

For these "to low" you can have really nice ( i would say even better in many cases ) wheels , lighter and more durable then Zipp ever build.

And your hubs won't brake so easy,bearings will last longer than weeks, won't be recall, and rim will not rub pads on every hill steeper than 3% ( Yes Zipp people- are companies which can do that for half of your price :welcome: and did long before you )

Next brand is Vision. Next is Corima. And Reynolds. Learn from US people : living in Europe buy European :)

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Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:06 pm
Posts: 977
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Tricky set of wishes.

Getting a wide, tubeless, disc, carbon rim will be tricky.

How about Bontrager? Take the decals of maybe. They've just announced their Aeolus 3 and 5 in tubeless clincher disc wheelset. One of the few that are tubeless.
They're build around DT Swiss 240s hub internals so are centrelock and easily adapted for different axle standards.
Aeolus 3 is 35mm and 1460grams, Aeolus 5 is 50mm and 1560grams from memory

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:11 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 48
Thanks to all so far for the useful suggestions.

1. Tubulars - not for me
2. DT Swiss - I'm trying to find them in stock somewhere. Look to be well under £1000, more like EUR1100
3. Bontragers - Also a good suggestion

The DT Swiss 38mm wheel is slightly narrower with an external width of 21 and internal of 15mm
The Bontragers are 30mm high and wider with an external width of 27mm internal of 19.5mm

If you look at http://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Tech-P ... _Dimension it seems that you can run 23mm or 25mm tyres on either of them.

The published weights are:
Bontrager - 1454g
DT - 1455g

At the moment, I'm leaning towards the DTs as the 38mm height is a bit more blingy looking.

Any other pros/cons?

One review says that the DT has an awkward hidden nipple build...
...and I have a bad feeling the bontragers are about 900 pounds per wheel.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:54 am 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 2573
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Do you want a wheelset that peforms or looks "blingy"/ If you want something that performs well forget the DT Swiss narrow rim but go for a 25mm wide rim (or wider), it will be as aerodynamic and give all the benefits of a wider rim.

You seem to want looks over function which to me is the wrong set of criteria (for this forum in particular).

All factory wheels have the problem if they get damaged it can be tricky/not ecomonic to repair. Some one I know got knocked of his bike this morning by a car and the front wheel is damaged. His are hand built so a repair will be very easy. Try that with a dented rim on bontragers or DT Swiss wheels.

Also why not tubular tyres have you ever tried them, do you think they are faff because you are wrong there. Easy tyre to live with and enjoy.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:59 am
Posts: 349
Location: Oxfordshire UK
Yes because a C60 disk is not blingy at all :lol:

Shooting your wad on the frame and not budgeting for the wheels = schoolboy error

_________________
Scott CR1SL 6.25Kg | CAAD10 6.56Kg


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Posts: 727
Location: FIN
bm0p700f wrote:
...If you want something that performs well forget the DT Swiss narrow rim but go for a 25mm wide rim (or wider), it will be as aerodynamic and give all the benefits of a wider rim.


Naturally you do have independent & reliable data ( read : not coming from Zipp or Enve ) which can confirm this - so wrong - theory ? :mrgreen:

I didn't found yet ANY RELIABLE test which could confirm "miraculous" aero properties of " U shaped- wide " rims. None. Zero. Niente.

And from some reason European manufacturers still ( having R&D budget bigger than Zipp & Enve annual sale together ) still stick to 15mm , v-shaped. Do you REALLY believe they don't have € / technology / know-how …. to make u-shaped or wide ???

Talk with aerodynamicist. REAL one. Not connected to wheel manufacturers. That will open your eyes.


However I have to agree with you - replacing "open mold" Chinese rim in case of crash / damage is waay easier and cheaper.

Quality of some Chinese manufacturers rims is VERY close ( I mean really very very ) to some "reputable" brands, so for today do not see reason to build smth on nice hubs.

Next factor is price : 900€ for Chineese vs 1100€ for Corima / DT Swiss f.e. :idea: :?:

BTW DTSwiss & tubular can not best idea : internal nipples. Clincher- no problem here.


If I will not have nice hubs for funny money and have to make decision today , and it must be clincher : Corima, Vision, DT . In this order.
For "budget" build : Novatec/ dt350+ farsports.

But paying twice as much to have wheels ( not bad at all, just waay overpriced for what it gives ) only because they are well repre$ented here ( yes , you do understood it good : companies are paying people to watch "straight line" on forums , this one is no exception , what is more than obvious ) ???

Look what certain solution gives you for the money .

_________________
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)


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