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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:03 am 
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I've not seen any carbon clinchers sub 1200g apart from the Lightweight clincher wheels, and these are wide rims! http://www.visiontechusa.com/products/567/METRON-40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:05 am 
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I wonder what they really weigh....

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:35 am 
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Only a 35g weight penalty for tubular vs. clincher?

That's very shocking, and surprising, considering that the standard weight penalty for going clincher has been at least 100g or more, per wheelset.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:44 am 
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I recently got a pair of 50mm 23mm Wide Farsports clinchers (480g rim, 430g for 38mm), 20/24 spokes, cheap hubs (257g), steel bearings, 4 front and 4 rear cx-ray spokes that weigh 1360g for the pair.
these visions are 40mm (10mm shallower), 18/21 spokes (5less spokes), 2F/4R ceramic bearings (2 less bearings), and presumably lighter hubs/spokes, so it doesn't seem that unlikely too be sub 1200g claimed, most likely minus any clear coat finish and stickers. Whether they are actually sub 1200g, only time will tell, but it is not a weight I say is impossible, and with enough money could be done right now, before Vision.
Interested to see how these wheels perform when they are released.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:54 am 
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There's a reason that it's hard to go uber-light on clinchers. Tubys are a simplistic design, with the braking built into the structure of the rim. Clinchers require massive amounts of extra material and epoxy to be added, and if you don't add enough, your braking is going to be terrible. Not to mention heat dissipation...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:33 am 
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Zen Cyclery wrote:
There's a reason that it's hard to go uber-light on clinchers. Tubys are a simplistic design, with the braking built into the structure of the rim. Clinchers require massive amounts of extra material and epoxy to be added, and if you don't add enough, your braking is going to be terrible. Not to mention heat dissipation...


Madfiber is really close, they're at 1300g. Lightweight Meilenstein is at 1200g. You can probably do Reynolds 32 with Dash hubs at around 1200 or less too. Resin advancement in the next two years will bring the weight down to around 1150g for clinchers. I think it's more like the cost right now can't be brought down for big names to make money and still offer them at a reasonable price.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:42 am 
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Carbon clinchers truly strike me as a waste of money unless pose value is top of the agenda. Even then, the cognoscenti will be laughing.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:47 am 
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airwise wrote:
Carbon clinchers truly strike me as a waste of money unless pose value is top of the agenda. Even then, the cognoscenti will be laughing.


Not having to change brake pads every time you change a wheel a plus, also I prefer carbon braking as opposed to alu braking!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:52 am 
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airwise,

For many tubulars are a waste of money. People choose clinchers for a number of reasons of equal value to the reasons people choose tubular.
Furthermore, carbon clinchers are no longer what they used to be: the braking performance is now fantastic. That is unless you're the type of rider who rides the brakes on a descent - in which case you might as well go for disc brakes, or stay at home.

This has all be discussed before, in many threads, over many years/months, and it's getting a bit stale to bring it up again, no?
Better to spend the time riding instead of pointing to the past!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:54 am 
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airwise wrote:
Carbon clinchers truly strike me as a waste of money unless pose value is top of the agenda. Even then, the cognoscenti will be laughing.


I ride carbon tubulars and I like carbon and stee/ti bikes too. I don't understand your objection to carbon clinchers, do you care to elaborate? If they can be made to be reliable and lightweight, then that's a big win for consumers and manufactures and retailers. The bike industry like every other industry it need to innovate to keep making money and bring people to the showrooms, etc....


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:17 am 
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Objections?

Not really any weight saving and considerably inferior braking to aluminium. In their favour they look cool.

If they could be made light and strong whilst offering superb braking then they would indeed offer a benefit and I would be all in favour. But I personally suspect we will have to wait for discs for that to happen


Last edited by airwise on Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:17 am 
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Well...who has $2K to check them out for the rest of us?

"Retail price for the new wheels is around US$2,000/£1,600/€1,900 (including VAT where applicable)."

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/fsa-vision-metron-carbon-road-cockpit-first-look-36775/
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/01/news/new-wind-tunnel-tuned-wheels-debut-under-cannondale-pro-cycling-team_271556
http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/08/vision-adds-40-and-55mm-deep-carbon-wheels-two-color-schemes/

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:04 am 
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airwise wrote:
Not really any weight saving


Weight savings compared to what? Tubulars? Sure, they are lighter. But go spec me a 40-50mm alloy wheelset that weighs less than 1500 grams. Ready, go!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:07 am 
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wpccrunner wrote:
I recently got a pair of 50mm 23mm Wide Farsports clinchers (480g rim, 430g for 38mm), 20/24 spokes, cheap hubs (257g), steel bearings, 4 front and 4 rear cx-ray spokes that weigh 1360g for the pair.
these visions are 40mm (10mm shallower), 18/21 spokes (5less spokes), 2F/4R ceramic bearings (2 less bearings), and presumably lighter hubs/spokes, so it doesn't seem that unlikely too be sub 1200g claimed, most likely minus any clear coat finish and stickers. Whether they are actually sub 1200g, only time will tell, but it is not a weight I say is impossible, and with enough money could be done right now, before Vision.
Interested to see how these wheels perform when they are released.


(Apologies for derailing, but I'm new here and can't send PMs yet)
Could you please provide a link to the rims you got? There are a few different 50mm clinchers on Farsports' website, but they only list the width (at 20.5mm) for one model. The rest of them don't have the widths specified. Also, how do you like the wider rims? Do they offer as much comfort/ride quality improvement as they do on aluminum rims? Or do the carbon rims themselves dampen the road imperfections?

@airwise - I can see your side of the debate, but for someone who wants aero performance without the hassle of tubulars and with reasonable weight, what else is out there?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:17 am 
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savechief wrote:

Weight savings compared to what? Tubulars? Sure, they are lighter. But go spec me a 40-50mm alloy wheelset that weighs less than 1500 grams. Ready, go!


If I'm worried about weight why would I bother with a 50mm wheel that has poor braking? Better something like a Racing Zero. Lighter weight, good aero and superb braking. Also costs less than half what a bling bit of carbon will.

For Engi, I wonder whether the requirement for ultimate aero performance would negate any need for weight savings to a large degree. After all, in the recent Tour test, something like a Campagnolo Euros was more effective over most terrain than something like an Enve Smart and that was without taking the braking into consideration.


Last edited by airwise on Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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