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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:00 am 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5850
Location: Belgium
Hi,

We all know that tyres, any tyre come with a bunch of compromises. Be that puncture restistance, the casing or the inner tube, all have an impact on performance.

Special races require special gear so it's nothing extraordinary to see special frames etc. Yet other than for a race such as Paris-Roubaix, we do not seem to need anything out of the ordinary.

Yet, it seems to me that some gaps can be filled, that in fact races can be won or lost by using well thought out equipment.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:21 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 2196
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
I'd like a tire that has super low rolling resistance when riding upright, but has decent traction for cornering. It'd be for a race I do each year that has multiple 2 hour long climbs per day with a couple fast descents between them. Most of the time you're climbing so low rolling resistance would be paramount. Not sure I'd win with those tires but a few free watts wouldn't hurt.

For training in the rain I'd like a tire with great wet traction and decent puncture resistance. I used to use Performance Forte Pro Kevlar tires which were very good in the wet. (unlike the other Performance tires which were poor in all conditions). But they stopped selling them. I tried Panacacer tires (who had made the tires for Performance) which were ok, but they changed the tread formula to one that has zero traction in the wet. It's absolutely terrible.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:40 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:53 am
Posts: 187
I'm really surprised that no big wheel brand has introduced super lightweight tubeless rims and tires technology to the peloton. It seems to me a logical progression for wheels and tires. I hardly know anything about tubeless stuff, I only ride tubulars.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Posts: 2291
Location: Pedal Square
Not so much for racing (at least not with a team car), but I'd love to see a skinwall 27mm clincher, along the lines of Vittoria Pavè. Grand Bois has 26+28, so that with a little puncture protection would be great.

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Bikes: Raw Ti, 650b flatbar CX


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:18 am 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5850
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Good point.

Quote:
I'd like a tire that has super low rolling resistance when riding upright, but has decent traction for cornering. It'd be for a race I do each year that has multiple 2 hour long climbs per day with a couple fast descents between them. Most of the time you're climbing so low rolling resistance would be paramount. Not sure I'd win with those tires but a few free watts wouldn't hurt.


Imagine a handmade tubular tyre crafted to the best know how of its kind, no puncture belt whatsoever.
That tyre would probably weigh around 220g or thereabouts.
Now all you'd want is a very supple casing, not too wide, say 23mm and a latex inner tube of the best pedigree. 55g and not too lossy.
Add a top notch cotton/silk ? casing with a true high TPI count around 300, a compound a la Veloflex or Black Chili and what do you get?
By tyre, I had tubular in mind but that's really irrelevant. The idea is to really think up horses for courses and see what turns up eventually.
With some luck, you're idea will be picked up (mine tend to so why not yours) and you'll end up with the tyre of your dreams.

Don't get the wrong idea, I just want to find out what the ideal tyre should look like for whatever circumstance you use it for ( this would create an infinite amount of variations on a theme, yet this not J.S. Bach)

As an example I currently use pre-aged (from 6 months to several years) Veloflex Carbon for what I view as a leisurely ride nearing 30km/h on roads that do not present a puncture risk. At least not for these tyres anyway.

So, lets take it one step further, and another. Just to see where the minimum of belts and braces can lead us.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 2196
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
There are already some dual compound bicycle tires, and lots of dual compound motorcycle tires. I'd just be looking for a wider range between the compounds and a carcas designed for low rolling resistance rather than grip.

For my particular application I'd want a clincher; in this race you're not out of contention if you get a flat but there usually is not a service vehicle so you have to fix your own. I'm new to tubulars and not confident in my ability to change a tubular quickly when I am fresh let alone when I'm tired. But the same idea would apply to tubulars.

The low rolling resistance center compound would not be the best for me to ride in training as it tends to slip when standing on steep climbs. But in this particular race that's not too much of a problem even though there are some steep pitches because the pavement is good and it's usually warm.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:20 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 2633
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
For me the perfect tyres already exist. The GP4 seasons for when its been raining and the road is strewn with flints. The GP4000s when it has dried out a bit and the cars have shoved all those sharp flint to the side of the road or the verge.

Tyres with no puncture protection me are just silly at least where I live and ride. There is a good reason why Conti tyres around here are so popular.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:28 pm
Posts: 383
wassertreter wrote:
Not so much for racing (at least not with a team car), but I'd love to see a skinwall 27mm clincher, along the lines of Vittoria Pavè. Grand Bois has 26+28, so that with a little puncture protection would be great.

(apologies for the massive picture size)
Image
http://www.challengetech.it/products/road/paris-roubaix-open-016/en


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:28 pm
Posts: 383
An open tubular with a tubeless bead and no butyl lining.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Posts: 2291
Location: Pedal Square
Privateer: yes, unfortunately the PR seems to be closer to 29mm for many, which seems to be slightly beyond the clearance sweetspot for many frames and forks. Also the reputation for puncture protection is, shall I say, lackluster?

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Bikes: Raw Ti, 650b flatbar CX


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:19 am 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5850
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
Tyres with no puncture protection me are just silly at least where I live and ride. There is a good reason why Conti tyres around here are so popular


I take it you're perfectly fine with their lack of comfort which incidentally impacts their performance as well?
The entire point of this thread is to actually think it through, not just accept the current state of affairs.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:40 pm
Posts: 201
Honestly, it would simply be a Conti GP4000S with more supple (and tan) sidewalls. And $20 cheaper of course!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:16 pm
Posts: 35
4 season with black chili, or gp4000s with double Vectran belt. A lot of the rolling resistance around here comes from the nasty kinds of asphalt used anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:22 pm
Posts: 21
wassertreter wrote:
Not so much for racing (at least not with a team car), but I'd love to see a skinwall 27mm clincher, along the lines of Vittoria Pavè. Grand Bois has 26+28, so that with a little puncture protection would be great.


Veloflex Master 27. :thumbup:

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