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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 8:14 pm
Posts: 395
Getting a new front wheel built; settled on 24 spokes - HED Belgian Rim, Alchemy ELF hub, Sapim RAY spokes. I'm 195 lbs, like climbing out of saddle, occasional get on some bad roads where I ride in Northern VT. I like the look of radial, but it has been advised that I go 2x spoke cross on the front wheel for purposes of less stress on the hub flange (my rear wheel is 28 spokes w/ 3x). Any opinions to help me make decision? Should I definitely go the 2x -- is it that much more stress on a flange that would cause concern over time?

Thanks for the opinions


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:43 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:58 am
Posts: 387
I've just gone through the same decision making process and the bottom line i determined was that so long as the hub flange can handle being laced radially, then there's very few good reasons to go one way or the other:

--rim braked wheels have minimal torsion so there is less need for tangential bracing provided by a cross pattern.
--weight is a pretty minimal concern - less than 1 total spoke difference, so like 4g if you're lucky.
--if you break a spoke on a radially laced wheel then the spoke is free to move. if the wheel is laced with a cross then there are bracing spokes to restrict the movement of the broken spoke.
--there are possibly some aero benefits to radial lacing, but similar to the weight thing this is pretty trivial.
--sheldon reckons that there is more risk of radially laced spokes unwinding
--more spoke tension = more load on the flange - if you're a bigger rider then peak loads on the flange will be higher but this shouldn't be a problem unless you're particularly heavy.

personally, i like the appearance of a radially spoked front, they're super easy to lace up and they're easier to clean so that's the way i've gone.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:21 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 2138
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Some hubs will have the bearing pockets go out of round when laced radially. You can lace them 1x to prevent that.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:04 pm
Posts: 54
Crossed is a better deal as the tension of a crossed spoke keeps the one in the load affected zone under tension so it is less likely to unwind


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:18 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am
Posts: 373
eric wrote:
Some hubs will have the bearing pockets go out of round when laced radially. You can lace them 1x to prevent that.

+1 ... I am 209lbs/95 kgs (heavy) and I have run 0x (Radial), 20 spoke, 27mm deep, front wheel without any issues for 3 years (so far) :)

You are lighter but if you want a front wheel that is more bombproof then 1x 24spokes, as suggested by eric, is a good idea ... or even 2x, to be sure :)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 2138
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Troy Watson built me a set of wheels some years back on White H1 hubs. He suggested 1x on the front and I went along with it since he's the expert. Last year I decided to take the wheels apart and use the hubs with some Farsports carbon rims. Researching the H1s I found out about the front sometimes deforming under radial lacing. Now I understood Troy's lacing. I built my wheels the same way.

I kind of like the look so I have done a few other front wheels 1x.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am
Posts: 373
eric wrote:
Troy Watson built me a set of wheels some years back on White H1 hubs. He suggested 1x on the front and I went along with it since he's the expert. Last year I decided to take the wheels apart and use the hubs with some Farsports carbon rims. Researching the H1s I found out about the front sometimes deforming under radial lacing. Now I understood Troy's lacing. I built my wheels the same way.

I kind of like the look so I have done a few other front wheels 1x.

Hi eric, probably another idea, when using radial lacing, is to do a triplet arrangement using a 24H hub and a 32H rim ...
... DS/NDS/DS . miss rim hole . NDS/DS/NDS . miss rim hole . DS/NDS/DS . miss rim hole . etc ... sounds interesting.

Do you think this approach might prevent the front rim (sometimes) deforming under radial lacing ... thanks KL :)


Last edited by KLabs on Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:02 pm
Posts: 386
Will look just as stupid as a Vento/Khamsin front wheel and be just as pointless.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:03 am 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5835
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Agreed. Good for a rear wheel where you'd want a more balanced spoke tension. Pointless exercise on a front wheel.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am
Posts: 373
eric wrote:
Troy Watson built me a set of wheels some years back on White H1 hubs. He suggested 1x on the front and I went along with it since he's the expert. Last year I decided to take the wheels apart and use the hubs with some Farsports carbon rims. Researching the H1s I found out about the front sometimes deforming under radial lacing. Now I understood Troy's lacing. I built my wheels the same way.
I kind of like the look so I have done a few other front wheels 1x.
fdegrove wrote:
Hi,
Agreed. Good for a rear wheel where you'd want a more balanced spoke tension. Pointless exercise on a front wheel.
Ciao, ;)

Hi fdegrove, what would you suggest for the OP's front wheel build, 0x 1x or 2x, and what do you think is causing the effect that eric has indicated :)

I actually like the triplet appearance ... thanks KL :)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:41 am 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5835
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Lots of front hubs are not designed to be laced up radial so I'd take the advise of the manufacturer and opt for at least x1.
x2 lacing will make the wheel stiffer which is a welcome bonus.

http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

http://www.troubleshooters.com/bicycles/wheelbuilding/index.htm

Ciao, ;)

_________________
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:26 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:49 pm
Posts: 846
Location: Netherlands
go radial, but get a stronger spokes, those are too light for you. or go 28.

2x on front is ugly and unnecessary, even if you weight 100Kg. On my track bike i have a 36 spokes front wheel, bomb proof, strong hub and strong spokes, but it's radial. Not going radial on the front is completely out of style and taste. do it only for cobbles or touring or that stuff.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:41 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:25 pm
Posts: 47
The instruction sheet for Alchemy Elf Hubs states that radial pattern is OK for 16H to 28H versions of the hub.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:48 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 2510
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
36 spoke radial wheels look daft to me and so does 1x but its all personal perference.

If the maufacturer warranties the use of radial lacing then use it if they don't use cross lacing 1x or 2x depending on your personal taste.

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